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Path: ...!news.misty.com!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: 197 page execution trace of DDD correctly simulated by HHH Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 21:07:33 -0400 Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org) Message-ID: <95b8d2686a17a5fee6b5811ca115c902fbc7b17a@i2pn2.org> References: <v4vrfg$2793f$1@dont-email.me> <v5k7ju$2qsdr$5@dont-email.me> <v5mcvo$1cgj0$3@i2pn2.org> <v5mklg$3cibm$7@dont-email.me> <v5mo8a$1d3t3$2@i2pn2.org> <v5mqge$3e4fd$2@dont-email.me> <v5msjt$1d3t3$9@i2pn2.org> <v5mtba$3elj0$1@dont-email.me> <v5n2ah$1d3t3$10@i2pn2.org> <v5n2sk$3fm1k$1@dont-email.me> <v5po6i$1h5u1$1@i2pn2.org> <v5pp9m$2jk8$1@dont-email.me> <v5rcrh$fkks$1@dont-email.me> <v5s44b$jvgt$2@dont-email.me> <v5tp2t$vsqr$1@dont-email.me> <v5u97g$12udb$6@dont-email.me> <v5vi62$1oanb$3@i2pn2.org> <v5vljj$1b0k9$3@dont-email.me> <v5vocu$1oanb$10@i2pn2.org> <v5vp03$1fbi8$1@dont-email.me> <v5vpht$1oana$8@i2pn2.org> <v5vrac$1fg22$2@dont-email.me> <v5vrnq$1oana$10@i2pn2.org> <v5vsff$1fqfa$2@dont-email.me> <e9c681b90a30f1c1c0b14c970675c5d6b104f535@i2pn2.org> <v60se2$1kr1q$5@dont-email.me> <04db95a103cfbcb76bd6082752ed89932cfce5d5@i2pn2.org> <v620nf$1qutj$1@dont-email.me> <adab42d299905f4219330596cccb5184f5e09597@i2pn2.org> <v621b9$1qutj$3@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 01:07:34 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="1962627"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="diqKR1lalukngNWEqoq9/uFtbkm5U+w3w6FQ0yesrXg"; User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 In-Reply-To: <v621b9$1qutj$3@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 12565 Lines: 267 On 7/2/24 7:09 PM, olcott wrote: > On 7/2/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 7/2/24 6:58 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 7/2/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> On 7/2/24 8:39 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 7/2/2024 6:30 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>> On 7/1/24 11:34 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 10:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 11:14 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 9:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 10:34 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 9:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 9:36 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 7:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 8:59 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 3:23 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 30.jun.2024 om 19:20 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3 ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It cannot possibly return, because HHH aborts itself one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cycle too early, showing that the emulation is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect. If that is over your head, try to learn how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x86 instructions work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3 ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by HHH which calls an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process until aborted. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> CAN'T BE. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A "Correct Emulation" is one that produces the same result >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the program at the input. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which can only possibly occur be disregarding the semantics >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the x86 language. Liars would do that ignoramuses would do >>>>>>>>>>>>> that. Everyone with the equivalent of a BSCS would know that >>>>>>>>>>>>> what I said is true. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you say that? That is EXACTLY the definition of >>>>>>>>>>>> Correct Emulation. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WELL INDOCTRINATED FALSE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT TRUTH. >>>>>>>>>>> WELL INDOCTRINATED FALSE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT TRUTH. >>>>>>>>>>> WELL INDOCTRINATED FALSE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT TRUTH. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And denying definitions is just lying. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It may seem that way when you don't bother to pay >>>>>>>>> attention that this definition is contradicted >>>>>>>>> by verified facts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WHAT "Verified facts". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> THe fact that DDD will halt since your HHH(DDD) retuns? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Indoctrination will cause this. The only cure is >>>>>>>>> correct reasoning by assuming that everything that >>>>>>>>> anyone ever told you about anything is possibly >>>>>>>>> false until conclusively proven otherwise. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nope, but failure to follow the defined rules gets you kick out >>>>>>>> of the club. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If everyone always did this then Nazi propaganda >>>>>>>>> could not possibly have any chance of success. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But THEY Lied, and to could be shown so, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just like your statements. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop() >>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; >>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion() >>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion(); >>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows >>>>>>>>>>> that when HHH emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, >>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must abort these emulations >>>>>>>>>>> so that itself can terminate normally. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> SO THESE THREE INPUTS DO NOT FREAKING HALT >>>>>>>>>>> SO THESE THREE INPUTS DO NOT FREAKING HALT >>>>>>>>>>> SO THESE THREE INPUTS DO NOT FREAKING HALT >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No, DDD does halt if HHH is a decider and HHH(DDD) returns. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That is the same nutty bullshit as Gödel's 1931 incompleteness >>>>>>>>> theorem. If there are no truth preserving operations in PA to >>>>>>>>> either G or ~G then G has no truthmaker in PA making G not a >>>>>>>>> truth-bearer in PA. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But there ARE a set of truth preserving operations in PA to show >>>>>>>> G, it is just that it takes an infinite number of them, so they >>>>>>>> don't constitute a proof. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Diagonalization conclusively proves otherwise and you know it. >>>>>>> Maybe the issue is that you are fundamentally a liar. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How? >>>>>> >>>>>> I call your bluff, show your "cards" or FOLD. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That is not the way it works, you made a false claim and I >>>>> call your bluff on this false claim. You must provide a linked >>>>> source that agrees. >>>> >>>> Of course that is the way it works. >>>> >>>> You claim you can show something, and I ask you to show it. >>>> >>>> Failure just means you admit to being a liar. >>>> >>>> You need to show your proof, that you can form a "Diagonalization" >>>> proof that Godel's sentence is not true. >>>> >>>> You need to either present the proof, admit you lied that you had ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========