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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD correctly emulated by EEE --- Correct Emulation Defined
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2025 19:55:58 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 3/23/25 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 3/23/2025 4:46 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 3/23/25 1:38 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 3/23/2025 6:08 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 3/22/25 11:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 3/22/2025 9:53 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/22/25 2:00 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/22/2025 12:34 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/25 10:52 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> _DD()
>>>>>>>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local
>>>>>>>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD
>>>>>>>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call EEE(DD)
>>>>>>>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
>>>>>>>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
>>>>>>>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f
>>>>>>>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d
>>>>>>>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
>>>>>>>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
>>>>>>>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>>>>> [00002155] c3         ret
>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When finite integer N instructions of the above x86
>>>>>>>>> machine language DD are emulated by each x86 emulator
>>>>>>>>> EEE[N] at machine address [000015c3] according to the
>>>>>>>>> semantics of the x86 language no DD ever reaches its own
>>>>>>>>> "ret" instruction at machine address [00002155] and
>>>>>>>>> terminates normally.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your can't emulate the above code for N > 4, as you get into 
>>>>>>>> undefine memory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have already addressed this objection dozens of times.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No you haven't. You have given several different LIES about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I have pointed out, if you don't include Halt7.c as part of the 
>>>>>> definition, then you can't do it as you are looking at undefined 
>>>>>> memory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your lack of technical competence is showing.
>>>>> (1) We are talking about a hypothetical infinite
>>>>> set of pure x86 emulators that have no decider code.
>>>>>
>>>>> (2) The memory space of x86 machine code is not
>>>>> in the C source file, it is in the object file.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then your "input" isn't the C source files, but the memory, and ALL 
>>>> of it, and thus in your (1), each member of the set got a different 
>>>> input (as reference memory changed) and none of those apply to your 
>>>> case with HHH.
>>>>
>>>> You just continue to prove that you don't understand the meaning of 
>>>> the terms you are using, or you are intentionally hiding your 
>>>> fradulant change of meaning of those terms.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Command line arguments:
>>> x86utm Halt7.obj > Halt7out.txt
>>>
>>> All of the x86 functions remain at their same fixed
>>> offset from the beginning of Halt7.obj
>>
>> So?
>>
>> You still need to make the decision, is Halt7.c / Halt7.obj part of 
>> the INPUT to the decider, and thus either you can't change the code in 
>> it, or you need to consider each version a different input, or
>>
> 
> _III()
> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push III
> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call EEE(III)
> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
> [00002183] c3         ret
> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
> 
> In other words an infinite set of pure x86 emulators
> with each one stored at machine address 000015d2
> that can be called from the above fixed finite string
> of machine code IS UTTERLY BEYOND ANYTHING THAT YOU
> CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE.
> 
> I don't buy it. You are  neither that stupid nor
> that ignorant.
> 

You can't have two different programs in one memory location at the same 
time.

Since the emulation of the program III will look at that memory, it must 
be part of the input, or you are just admitting to an incorrect 
emulation of THE INPUT.

Sorry, you are just proving that you are nothing but a stupid liar.

Note also, the III that calls an actual pure x86 emulator will actually 
be non-halting, as the only thing such a program can do is emulate 
without every breaking.

The issue is, that means that III is not the proof program, as that, by 
its definition, calls the decider to gets its answer, and we have 
established that the decider can't be that "pure x86 emulator" as if it 
was, it wouldn't answer.

So, you are just admitting that you logic is based on strawmen and lies.

Sorry, you are just proving how stupid your logic is, by the way you 
keep on repeating the same mistakes, and keep on claiming they must be 
right, but make no attempt to actually refute the basic point that was 
shown in the error, but try to go off on some side tangent based on more 
lies.

Sorry, your reputation is already sunk to the bottom of that lake of 
fire, and you will be joining it soon.