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Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!sewer!alphared!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: *Hemidactylus* <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Teilhard de Chardin - new documentary Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 21:30:09 +0000 Organization: University of Ediacara Lines: 108 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <D56cnb_D6PJ8gNT7nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com> References: <00mh4jhgge1kn69fhaq3mer8ol739ohacs@4ax.com> <T92dnefaopjGb9X7nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> <9b4171a3-43c1-4d83-877b-c85460aed913@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="7930"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad) To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:O309nFECNS/s0WOhB/SdHgufosY= Return-Path: <poster@giganews.com> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 6B681229870; Sat, 18 May 2024 17:29:58 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4764422986E for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Sat, 18 May 2024 17:29:56 -0400 (EDT) id 451217D11E; Sat, 18 May 2024 21:30:10 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay.zaccari.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410EC7D009 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Sat, 18 May 2024 21:30:10 +0000 (UTC) by egress-mx.phmgmt.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C5F605A6 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Sat, 18 May 2024 21:29:28 +0000 (UTC) by serv-1.ord.giganews.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99456440673 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Sat, 18 May 2024 16:30:09 -0500 (CDT) by serv-1.i.ord.giganews.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id 44ILU9h0063205; Sat, 18 May 2024 16:30:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: serv-1.i.ord.giganews.com: news set sender to poster@giganews.com using -f X-Path: news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail X-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 21:30:09 +0000 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Original-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Bytes: 8787 erik simpson <eastside.erik@gmail.com> wrote: > On 5/18/24 11:24 AM, *Hemidactylus* wrote: >> Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote: >>> (RNS) - In the history of the Catholic Church, too many innovative >>> thinkers were persecuted before they were accepted and then embraced >>> by the church. >>> >>> The list includes St. Thomas Aquinas (whose books were burned by the >>> bishop of Paris), St. Ignatius Loyola (who was investigated by the >>> Spanish Inquisition) and St. Mary MacKillop (an Australian nun who was >>> excommunicated by her bishop for uncovering and reporting clergy child >>> sex abuse). >>> >>> It's not surprising, then, that a French Jesuit scientist, Pierre >>> Teilhard de Chardin, who tried to bridge the gap between faith and >>> science, got himself in trouble with church officials and his Jesuit >>> superiors in the 20th century. Only after his death was he recognized >>> as the inspired genius that he was. >>> >>> His story is magnificently told in a new PBS documentary, "Teilhard: >>> Visionary Scientist," which was produced by Frank Frost Productions in >>> a 13-year labor of love. It took Frank and Mary Frost to four >>> countries on three continents, a total of 25 locations, and included >>> more than 35 interviews. >>> >>> [ ] >>> >>> "Teilhard: Visionary Scientist" will premiere on Maryland Public >>> Television on May 19 and be available for national and international >>> streaming for two years, beginning on May 20, on the free PBS app. >>> >>> https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2024/05/13/pierre-teilhard-de-chardin-pbs-documentary-247920 >>> >> Will this awkwardness be included in the magnificent retelling?: >> “Teilhard has been criticized as incorporating common notions of Social >> Darwinism [sic] and scientific racism into his work, along with support for >> eugenics,[41] Teilhard sharply criticized the idea of racial equality, >> saying in 1929: "Do the yellows—[the Chinese]—have the same human value as >> the whites? [Fr.] Licent and many missionaries say that their present >> inferiority is due to their long history of Paganism. I'm afraid that this >> is only a 'declaration of pastors.' Instead, the cause seems to be the >> natural racial foundation…"[41] Too, he said in 1936, "As not all ethnic >> groups have the same value, they must be dominated, which does not mean >> they must be despised—quite the reverse…In other words, at one and the same >> time there should be official recognition of: (1) the primacy/priority of >> the earth over nations; (2) the inequality of peoples and races."[41] And >> around 1937, he said, "What fundamental attitude…should the advancing wing >> of humanity take to fixed or definitely unprogressive ethnical groups? The >> earth is a closed and limited surface. To what extent should it tolerate, >> racially or nationally, areas of lesser activity? More generally still, how >> should we judge the efforts we lavish in all kinds of hospitals on saving >> what is so often no more than one of life’s rejects?…To what extent should >> not the development of the strong…take precedence over the preservation of >> the weak?"[41] >> In 1951, Teilhard continued to argue for racial and individual eugenics, >> and wrote a strongly worded criticism of the United Nations declaration of >> the Equality of Races. He continued to argue for eugenics as late as 1953, >> two years before his death.[41] Nevertheless, he has also been defended by >> theologian John F. Haught.[42][43]” >> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin >> >> https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/teilhard-eugenics >> >> https://ejournals.bc.edu/index.php/ctsa/article/view/11473/9623 >> >> >> > These views were (or should have been) anachronistic circa 1950, > although many still subscribe to the notion. That said, I'm impatient > with "cancellation" of figures from the past for holding views that were > "common knowledge" at the time. Very few people in the 19th century > would escape being called racist by modern standards. There is such a > thing as progress, even if it's not always obvious. > Well I find this bit of elaboration by John Slattery rather disturbing from my 2024 perch. Wonder how it went over when it happened (1947): “Besides their obvious objectionable nature, Teilhard’s views withstand two troubling tests: first, he defends them boldly in the face of his respected Christian colleagues who disagree; second, he persists in such views despite the shocking revelations of what took place in the concentration camps and death camps of Nazi Germany. One of Teilhard’s early biographers recounts a 1947 public debate with Gabriel Marcel, the famous French Catholic existentialist, where Teilhard persists in arguing for forced eugenical practices: “Once in a debate with Gabriel Marcel on the subject of ‘Science and Rationality,’ [Teilhard] shocked his opponent by refusing to permit even the appalling evidence of the experiments of the doctors of Dachau to modify his faith in the inevitability of human progress. ‘Man,” [Teilhard] asserted, ‘to become full man, must have tried everything’ …He added that since the human species was still so young…the persistence of such evil was to be expected. ‘Prometheus!’ Marcel had cried…’No,’ replied Teilhard, ‘only man as God has made him.’” Slattery gives this source: Mary Lukas and Ellen Lukas, Teilhard (Garden City, New York: Doubleday, 1977): 237-8. https://religiondispatches.org/pierre-teilhard-de-chardins-legacy-of-eugenics-and-racism-cant-be-ignored/ I wonder if the PBS labor of love will touch any of that. Of course aside from that I think Gould’s views on the drunkard’s walk, Modal Bacter, and contingency counter Teilhard’s overarching orthogenetic teleos bending upward toward Christ as point Omega. YMMV. When I brought that stuff up recently I was instead presented with a clueless tangent into Gould’s much less appealing NOMA idea.