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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: *Hemidactylus* <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Teilhard de Chardin - new documentary Date: Wed, 29 May 2024 17:39:08 +0000 Organization: University of Ediacara Lines: 46 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <DxadnU4NAfuh9cr7nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> References: <MYycnZ8_YauYidL7nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@giganews.com> <bdeu4jpadu1v3ju9cbludgmf14jg7tn16e@4ax.com> <MY2cnWxAeZJ58NL7nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> <np5v4jlj3k1gbaqph75volnbhjaqsge5b3@4ax.com> <BFadndZVZL3MVNL7nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> <o9m85j5ckntj9kb19vb1l175d8tf4rrpbn@4ax.com> <8bycnZ1bA68i4cn7nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> <f23002e5-4986-4d56-b7b8-629c7495753b@gmail.com> <DoqdndzZQ7FKRMn7nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> <5a8312e0-698c-469e-acca-6f062001a769@gmail.com> <boce5jdgu2ir8ir9osbh0sju2cp74g3fdo@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="8954"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPhone/iPod Touch) To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:O309nFECNS/s0WOhB/SdHgufosY= Return-Path: <poster@giganews.com> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 769E8229870; Wed, 29 May 2024 13:38:55 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 395CF22986E for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Wed, 29 May 2024 13:38:53 -0400 (EDT) by moderators.individual.net (Exim 4.97) for talk-origins@moderators.isc.org with esmtp (envelope-from <poster@giganews.com>) id 1sCNGf-00000000Hkj-3UWj; Wed, 29 May 2024 19:39:18 +0200 by egress-mx.phmgmt.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D74661116 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Wed, 29 May 2024 17:38:20 +0000 (UTC) by serv-1.ord.giganews.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38BDB4406A2 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Wed, 29 May 2024 12:39:08 -0500 (CDT) by serv-1.i.ord.giganews.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id 44THd8Jx075695; Wed, 29 May 2024 12:39:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: serv-1.i.ord.giganews.com: news set sender to poster@giganews.com using -f X-Path: news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail X-NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 May 2024 17:39:07 +0000 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Original-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Bytes: 5284 Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote: > [snip for focus] > >> Any religion with the concept of "dogma" built in will eventually bang >> heads with science. > > Really? The Catholic Church has loads of dogma; would you care to > identify where it bumps heads with science? > In the part you conveniently snipped there was a specific bumping of heads I mentioned based on the very documentary in your OP: “Teilhard got in hot water with Jesuits for his essay on original sin in light of evolution.” This essay by David Grumett elaborates: https://www.christiancentury.org/article/critical-essay/pierre-teilhard-de-chardins-theological-trouble “During the 1920s, Teilhard wrote an essay on how the doctrine of original sin could be reconciled with the theory of evolution. The essay, meant for private circulation, was passed on to church authorities in Rome, who saw in the essay an alarming deviation from orthodoxy.” “In his paper, Teilhard argued that traditional teachings about the fall of Adam and Eve into sin were difficult to reconcile with science for two reasons. First, fossils suggested that the human species emerged out of several different evolutionary branches, not from a single pair of ancestors. Second, an earthly paradise from which death, suffering, and evil were absent was scientifically inconceivable, given that the tendency toward physical disintegration is a condition of existence.” And: “It was the fourth proposition that caused Teilhard great difficulty. It read: “The whole human race takes its origin from one first parent, Adam.” In a letter to his mentor, Teilhard wrote: “I am able to subscribe to it in faith only with the implicit or explicit reserve that I regard the proposition as subject to revisions (and, what is more, essential revisions) of the kind to which belief in the eight days of creation, the flood, etc., has been subjected; and I do not see how anyone could forbid me this position.”” So Teilhard himself was bumping heads with authority based on his interpretation of science. And see: https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/what-do-catholics-believe-about-adam-and-eve I tried sending a reply like this earlier but it hasn’t shown up.