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From: John Harshman <john.harshman@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Anserifornes existed 67 million years ago
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 17:30:19 +0530
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On 2/12/25 4:51 PM, Ernest Major wrote:
> On 12/02/2025 09:03, John Harshman wrote:
>> On 2/6/25 8:08 AM, RonO wrote:
>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/ancestor-ducks-and-geese- 
>>> paddled-and-dove-alongside-dinosaurs-antarctica
>>>
>>> Some researchers claim to have found fossils of the ancestor or 
>>> extant ducks and geese dated to 67 million years ago in Antarctica.  
>>> The molecular evidence indicates that the lineage of birds existed 
>>> for more than 80 million years, but Anseriformes are supposed to have 
>>> branched off from Galliformes around 70 million years.  Neoaves is 
>>> supposed to have branched off 67 million years ago.  It looks like 
>>> the latests molecular dating isn't as exaggerated as previous estimates.
>>>
>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07323-1
>>>
>>
>> I think you may be a little confused about the dating. The supposed 
>> Antarctic Cretaceous anseriform would be Vegavis, and its identity has 
>> been strongly questioned. It might in fact be a stem-neornithine. In 
>> the study, the oldest fossil used to date Anseriformes was Conflicto, 
>> and that's Paleocene, while Presbyornis and others are younger.
>>
> 
> The science.org link reports a recent publication on a Vegavis skull, 
> which places Vegavis as a (stem?) anseriform.
> 
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08390-0
> 
Various publications have put it in various places. However, it wasn't 
used in the cited study.