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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!pasdenom.info!from-devjntp Message-ID: <EtDoDs0BPVkZJTF9Hcr7blKk9p0@jntp> JNTP-Route: news2.nemoweb.net JNTP-DataType: Article Subject: Re: Space-time interval (2) References: <YqTjbAPdSf8P-veYFHQCI8eskLU@jntp> <v9g6ij$3vsfg$1@dont-email.me> <AVa827R_LOez7mc5Ad3CT6GyhiA@jntp> <327c4ebc77dc16239ac38f00b508451b@www.novabbs.com> <ZmtVAt4HhKe0jdT-a3px1duKdmw@jntp> <v9i8c5$bvnu$9@dont-email.me> <VOohu46_lYfs6YEQG8qZQKYepNw@jntp> <v9ia7k$bvnu$11@dont-email.me> <FxxcAtB-BaU4TzfE-6Txlbo_gEA@jntp> <v9kiq7$tput$1@dont-email.me> Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity JNTP-HashClient: TN3o-0Pq1ZF-MkrG5SyhFPRTdCE JNTP-ThreadID: L0IgA2CWtv7gPeDAAk57TJ-BbeQ JNTP-Uri: http://news2.nemoweb.net/?DataID=EtDoDs0BPVkZJTF9Hcr7blKk9p0@jntp User-Agent: Nemo/0.999a JNTP-OriginServer: news2.nemoweb.net Date: Thu, 15 Aug 24 12:10:55 +0000 Organization: Nemoweb JNTP-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/127.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Injection-Info: news2.nemoweb.net; posting-host="e8cbf2474b472b9bb79db3dccb6a856bc1d05409"; logging-data="2024-08-15T12:10:55Z/8987628"; posting-account="4@news2.nemoweb.net"; mail-complaints-to="julien.arlandis@gmail.com" JNTP-ProtocolVersion: 0.21.1 JNTP-Server: PhpNemoServer/0.94.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-JNTP-JsonNewsGateway: 0.96 From: Richard Hachel <r.hachel@jesauspu.fr> Bytes: 6363 Lines: 97 Le 15/08/2024 à 11:46, Mikko a écrit : > >> The notion of universal anisochrony means that each watch will lag >> behind the other with an anisochrony Et=x/c, a reciprocal phenomenon >> that will affect all the watches in the universe. > > No, it does not. A watch may be set to show that time or another time and > it shows as it was set. That's not what I'm talking about. For 40 years now, I've been getting answers that miss the point. Breathe, blow, and for goodness sake, at least try to understand what I'm saying. I'm saying that the notion of a flat earth was a logical notion for the first men, because "if it weren't flat, the water would fall on the edges, and those at the bottom would fall into the void". The thought is logical in appearance, but it's wrong, the earth is not flat. For 40 years, I've been begging physicist speakers to get a new idea in their heads: the earth is round, and it's the principle of universal gravitation that makes it so that water doesn't fall, and that the Chinese don't fall into the "void". BUT still, it's not hard to understand! What's happening to you men, to be so timid, in front of Hachel's immense thought? ? ? I beg you to believe me, it is not that difficult to understand. You just have to abandon your a priori which do not rhyme with anything. You idealize a flat and abstract "present time", a universal simultaneity, it is a false and ridiculous a priori, but so anchored in the jaw of men like a dental abscess, that they have difficulty getting rid of it, and that they end up accommodating it. You cannot "absolutely" tune all the watches of a given frame of reference. Each will always lag behind the other in the best case of synchronizations. If I send an electromagnetic message to A and B, coming from the center M of a given segment, for M the impulses leave together (breathe, blow), but also for M, the impulses will arrive together. We agree. For M the events A and B will be simultaneous. They will occur in the same present moment. This is a method that can be used to synchronize all the capitals of the world, except that where do I place my point M? Let's say, at the center of the earth, for example, but that's not correct. Mexico and Amsterdam will not be at the same height. To synchronize them, I need an abstract point, ideally placed in an abstract 4th spatial dimension, and at an equal distance from any point in our universe (including a point placed on the moon). We will have perfect synchronization for this point. All the events that occur when it sends a beep will be simultaneous for it and will be part of its present moment. As for M between A and B. But now that we have a synchronization based on M and validated for M, we can make A and B beep simultaneously, and M will always receive the beeps simultaneously. This is the universal present for M. But ONLY for M. Breathe, blow. If I place myself at A, A will look at B with astonishment, and will say B is out of tune, the present moment with which he beeps, reaches me late, or rather EXISTS for me late. He beeps in my future, and not at my present moment, because when I beep, his beep does not exist FOR me, it will only exist in t=AB/c. This is what we call universal anisochrony. Are you finally starting to understand? We can then try to synchronize B, and A sends a message, I perceive you as late, advance your watch by AB/c. Which is what B will do and this time, A and B live in the same present moment, there is no more anisochrony. Except that this time, it is B who looks at A with astonishment and says, it is worse, for me. You no longer exist in the same present time as me when you beep simultaneously with me (seen by you), it is I who perceive you in reart and this time of 2 AB/c. And so on for all the watches of the universe. The solution is therefore to create a universal abstract time, and to agree on this point, ideally placed at the same universal distance from all the world capitals (and even that of the moon), this is what we call universal time. It is this time that is used today, and which "simulates" a global present time which, by nature, does not exist, and has never existed in the whole universe. The speed of light is not a photon moving at speed c in a universal present moment. It is for the observer an instantaneous transaction FOR HIM in his own present moment, the two events (the supernova bursts, I see the supernova bursting) being part of his own present. What we consider a universal present is a useful abstract work. But abstract. It does not exist. Like the ancient notion of a flat earth. R.H.