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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2025 22:57:23 +0000
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2025 17:57:23 -0500
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Subject: Re: Four Chatbots figure out on their own without prompting that
 HHH(DDD)==0
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy
References: <105bdps$1g61u$1@dont-email.me> <105c0lk$1k7ip$1@dont-email.me>
 <105c22v$1k9r9$3@dont-email.me> <105c5rt$1l4j7$1@dont-email.me>
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 <105gase$2pk90$3@dont-email.me>
 <4750857dbcb68380c00c2cc2752cf3371ef6ae02@i2pn2.org>
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 <76de7d874ac75cb915c86b297191c6ed4fbedfdf.camel@gmail.com>
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 <17740847a5bfd02e85e6719fee698afe69be5384.camel@gmail.com>
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 <49f9dd439d01ac56217e009870ee94417854c1e2.camel@gmail.com>
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 <348a6bbcb4c47d88ce91c23e43d81ec19fdd4fc4.camel@gmail.com>
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 <e15bb09de743ab0b82587d9e2e1349e409b7458b.camel@gmail.com>
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From: olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com>
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On 7/20/2025 5:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 7/20/25 10:33 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 7/20/2025 6:11 AM, joes wrote:
>>> Am Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:36:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>> On 7/19/2025 4:26 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 2025-07-19 at 16:05 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> DD correctly simulated by HHH cannot reach past the "if" statement
>>>>>> thus cannot reach the "return" statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is roughly what HP proof says.
>>>>>
>>>> Not at all. The HP proof claims that DD correctly simulated by HHH
>>>> reaches the self-contradictory part of DD and thus forms a
>>>> contradiction.
>>>
>>> No. It proves that the direct execution reaches the part that contra-
>>> dicts HHH's return value.
>>>
>>
>> <ChatGPT>
>> Misrepresentation of Input:
>> The standard proof assumes a decider
>> H(M,x) that determines whether machine
>> M halts on input x.
>>
>> But this formulation is flawed, because:
>> Turing machines can only process finite
>> encodings (e.g. ⟨M⟩), not executable entities
>> like M.
>>
>> So the valid formulation must be
>> H(⟨M⟩,x), where ⟨M⟩ is a string.
>> </ChatGPT>
>>
>>
> 
> In other words, your explaination to Chat GPR was just in error, as the 
> decider *IS* given the representation of the program M.
> 

H(M,x) is wrong and H(⟨M⟩,x) is correct.
You must actually pay attention or you miss
important details.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
  Genius hits a target no one else can see."
  Arthur Schopenhauer