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NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2024 04:34:55 +0000
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0600
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Subject: Re: HHH(DDD) computes the mapping from its input to HHH emulating
 itself emulating DDD --- anyone that says otherwise is a liar
Newsgroups: comp.theory
References: <vhdd32$oq0l$1@dont-email.me> <vhf257$16a9p$1@dont-email.me>
 <vhg8qq$1duv3$1@dont-email.me> <vhho9r$1pkdu$1@dont-email.me>
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From: olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com>
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On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The subject line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not specify which mapping and there is no 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    return;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH call.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is perfectly possibe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are specified in a way that makes your "every 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD" and "any DDD"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should I assume that you must be lying about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarity and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular by your bad choice of names.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possiblity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sentence says that there is only one HHH, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradicting your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> set.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One element of an infinite set does not say there
>>>>>>>>>> is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are just showing that your logic is based on proven 
>>>>>>>>> incorrect set theory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element 
>>>>>>>>> for the entire evaluation, 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Liar:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base 
>>>>>>>> case,
>>>>>>>> proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of
>>>>>>>> other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also hold for
>>>>>>>> the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the statement
>>>>>>>> holds for every natural number n. The base case does not 
>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>> begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed 
>>>>>>>> natural
>>>>>>>> number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all natural
>>>>>>>> numbers n ≥ N.
>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NOWHERE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express 
>>>>>>> your statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the 
>>>>> meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can 
>>>>> parrot their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to actually use.
>>>>>
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