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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2024 00:07:37 +0000
Subject: Re: What is "present time" in physics?
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
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From: Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2024 17:07:42 -0700
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On 09/06/2024 02:58 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>
>> On 09/05/2024 09:40 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09/04/2024 08:10 AM, Richard Hachel wrote:
>>>>>> The problem of relativity is the understanding of the notion of present
>>>>>> time, that is to say the notion of simultaneity (which should not be
>>>>>> confused with the notion of chronotropy).
>>>>>> Is there on the planet Fomalhaut IV, a princess Alexandra who lives
>>>>>> there, at the same time as me; me who is here on earth?
>>>>>> That is to say in the same present moment?
>>>>>> It must be said that yes, since whatever procedure of universal
>>>>>> synchronization I adopt, whether mine or that of Albert Einstein, there
>>>>>> is necessarily a LABEL, and only one, to characterize the existence of
>>>>>> Alexandra simultaneous with mine.
>>>>>> But according to the method of "synchronization of present time", we
>>>>>> will not have the same label.
>>>>>> Einstein uses procedure M, Hachel procedure H.
>>>>>> Procedure M is the most practical, procedure H is the most true.
>>>>>> Procedure M is the most practical, because it derives from the
>>>>>> synchronization of the present time on a point M placed very far away in
>>>>>> an imaginary fourth dimension, and at an equal distance from all the
>>>>>> points constituting our universe. This gives an abstract universal time,
>>>>>> but very useful, where the notion of universal present time is flat, and
>>>>>> reciprocal. If A exists at the same time as B for M, then B exists at
>>>>>> the same time as A for M. It is very practical.
>>>>>> Procedure H proposed by Richard Hachel is less practical, but truer. It
>>>>>> is less practical, because the notion of symmetry of the present time
>>>>>> will not be absolute. But it is truer, physically more accurate, and
>>>>>> more beautiful. It will remain eternally true experimentally, and
>>>>>> eternally more beautiful philosophically. What could be more beautiful
>>>>>> than saying to a child: "This horse in this meadow, this moon in the
>>>>>> sky, this galaxy in this telescope, you see them instantly, as they are
>>>>>> today, live-live".
>>>>>> What is uglier than human thought, which thinks it is intelligent,
>>>>>> even though it is full of stupid mockery, conceptual imbecilities,
>>>>>> simply because it can say, as all morons say: "The speed of light is c,
>>>>>> we know it, we have measured it, experimented with it, and we get
>>>>>> 3.10^8m/s".
>>>>>> This is the most stupid reflection in the history of humanity, proposed
>>>>>> by mocking morons (Python, John Baez) who think they are funny and
>>>>>> intelligent, authorized mockers, but who have not understood anything
>>>>>> about the notion of universal anisochrony and the two possible ways in
>>>>>> which we can (or even MUST be able to) synchronize the clocks of the
>>>>>> universe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> R.H.
>>>>>
>>>>> The (physical) space-time is a (mathematical) coordinate space, and
>>>>> the (physical) Space-Time is the continuous manifold of the field number
>>>>> formalism of QM combined with the inertial-systems'
>>>>> differential-system GR, where according to Einstein the GR is
>>>>> a differential-system parameterized by a "the time", and in
>>>>> QM the time-reversibility has never been falsified, with the
>>>>> time-ordering of the path-integral being pretty much classical,
>>>>> a "clock hypothesis" is not un-usual, that with respect to a
>>>>> coordinate space, yet there's only a forward-pointing ray of time,
>>>>> between zero and one a vector field over the entirety of Space-Time,
>>>>> that in deep space in absolute vacuum at absolute zero equals one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clocks either slow or meet, ....
>>>>>
>>>>> That "there are no closed time-like curves" and "time reversibility
>>>>> has never been falsified" then as with regards to null geodesics
>>>>> and any usual ideas about using the time-like as simply an extra
>>>>> "Fourth Dimension" for only mathematical extrapolation, has that
>>>>> physically it might as well just be considered "the gradient" as
>>>>> with regards to "t" everywhere universally parameterizing the
>>>>> differential-system and time-ordering of GR and QM.
>>>>>
>>>>> This sort of theory can for example reduce functional freedom
>>>>> from 10^120 to approximately 1, while that "time dilation plus
>>>>> length contraction equals space contraction" is simply enough
>>>>> as of the FitzGeraldian and associated considerations of the
>>>>> Heaviside and Larmour with respect to Lorentz, while in QM
>>>>> there are both low-energy and high-energy supersymmetry, as
>>>>> whether "virtual" particles are just another model of continuum
>>>>> dynamics.
>>>>>
>>>>> I.e., all one theory, all one manifold, all one t.
>>>>>
>>>>> The d'Espagnat on a model philosopher's model physicist's
>>>>> model philosophy's model physics, "objective realism",
>>>>> with Broglie-Bohm and Aspect-like extra-locality, as
>>>>> with regards to "anti-realist model physics", helps
>>>>> explore then why making for a clock hypothesis and
>>>>> a "the time" as Einstein does in "Out of My Later Years",
>>>>> why curved space-time is just a model in the Cartesian
>>>>> for "space contraction" then that though its consideration
>>>>> as a "Fourth Dimension" asks a bit much of a simple numerical
>>>>> resource of a mathematical/physical continuum, continuous
>>>>> manifold.
>>>>>
>>>>> What time is now?
>>>>
>>>> Now here or now, or here and now??? where? here? now? is it here now?
>>>>
>>> The question nobody wants to ask is..Where is Now? and
>>>
>>> where is Here?
>>>
>>> Is Here and Now the same place or are they two different places?
>>>
>>> Here
>>>
>>> Now
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> "Do you know who ...?"   "Yeah"
>
> I know it's Now everywhere, but is Here and Now Here or is Here
> everywhere, or over there or
>
> Here, There.. Everywhere?
>
> What time is it Here, and what time is it over there, is Here here? Is
> there here?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The idea of space contraction is still "Lorentzian" while it must
still explain both length contraction and time dilation, which get
arrived at according to both cosmological constant and L-principle
and mass-energy equivalency, according to light-speed being the
metered propagation of information, that the propagation of information
is free, while metered, in terms of these establishing any reason
why there's not otherwise just plain universal-time, at all.

The idea is that there's FitzGerald, sitting next to Heaviside and
Faraday and Larmour, a bit separately from Maxwell, yet as well all
involved in E&M and the fields of potential, among a sort of tetrad
of quantities, like electron/proton neutron/photon, charge/mass
rest/motion and these kinds of things, in sum-of-histories
sum-of-potentials.

FitzGerald makes for a different Lorentzian than Maxwell and Einstein
respectively, who make Lorentzians, as with regards to dx+dy+dz, -dt,
and ds with regards to the metric, or for the Laplacian so related,
dx^2+dy^2+dx^2, -dy, squared, and ds, squared, and that being zero.

This way, what results is that the linear is Galilean again,
and, the rotational, is free and independent itself, while
yet both are Lorentzian, so that space-contraction, means
nothing to objects in their orbits moving linearly, and
makes for clock-slowing for objects moving circularly in
their orbits.


So, you don't have to care what time it is and can assume it's
the same everywhere, except with regards to coming and going
from quite distinct orbits and trajectories, that basically
appear mostly classical while when they meet and part can show
that the object having entered and left a free rotational slowed
then met and demonstrates space contraction centrally and inwardly,
while the object in linear motion plain departed and exhibits
space-contraction in its own space-frame and space-frame?


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