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From: Ron Dean <rondean-noreply@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: oecies just appear in the strata asz
Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 20:30:30 -0400
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jillery wrote:
> On Sun, 5 May 2024 12:22:04 -0400, Ron Dean
> <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> jillery wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 May 2024 22:54:26 -0400, Ron Dean
>>> <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 3 May 2024 21:47:19 -0400, Ron Dean
>>>>> <rondean-noreply@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The evidence shows that almost all modern phyla appeared or was placed
>>>>>> on the planet during the Cambrian. I know of no scientific evidence
>>>>>> observed in the fossil record demonstrating the evolution these phylum
>>>>>> during the early Cambrian or the pre Cambrian. The modern phyla existed
>>>>>> and no third alternative is offered. If a designer was involved in the
>>>>>> creation of the Cambrian biota, there
>>>>>> is no reason to suppose it could not be involved at different times
>>>>>
>>>>> And no reason to suppose anything else about the Designer's
>>>>> activities, from a scientific perspective.
>>>>>
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> organisms at the level at a  family (kinds) classifications of living
>>>>>> organisms that fit within the earlier phylum category.
>>>>>> Each kind reproducing after it's own kind.
>>>>>
>>>> I've recently arrived to the conclusion, based upon the fact that the
>>>> origin of the massive amounts of highly complex genetic information that
>>>> was infused into the Genetic code just didn't appear from nowhere. There
>>>> had to be a source. On this planet the only source of complex
>>>> information is from a mind.
>>>
>>>
>>> That unguided natural processes also create complex information puts
>>> the lie to your claim.  You act as if mindless repetition is
>>> sufficient to make it true.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The information in genetic codes must have
>>>> come from the mind of a deity, which I've come to believe is God.
>>>> I believe that the presence of such highly complex information can be
>>>> seen as evidence of a God.
>>>
>>>
>>> Which makes your belief true by definition, a pointless truism.
>>>
>>>
>>>> You can believe or disbelieve, but you can
>>>> only disbelieve, you cannot falsify the existence of this Being.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's easy to create unfalsifiable claims based on unspecified and
>>> invisible entities.  The hard thing, the scientific thing, is to
>>> create falsifiable claims based on material evidence.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Furthermore, the fact that virtually all life on this planet is based on
>>>> the same genetic code implies a common design. Of course, evolution
>>>> advocates claim this is evidence of descent from a common ancestor.
>>>
>>>
>>> The fact of a common genetic code by itself doesn't distinguish
>>> between common design and common descent.
>>>
>>>
>>>> But
>>>> as to the origin of this information, these evolutionist do not have any
>>>> direct evidence demonstrating how  genetic information came into
>>>> existence. Also there is the question as to the origin of the DNA.
>>>
>>>
>>> And cdesign proponentsists have neither direct evidence demonstrating
>>> how genetic information came into existence, nor of a presumptive
>>> purposeful designer of genetic information.
> 
> 
> Once again you conveniently ignore these facts above.  Since your
> criticisms apply at least as much to ID as to evolution, they don't
> work to either promote ID or demote evolution.
> 
>   
>>>> It's asserted that RNA must have come first because RNA possesses the
>>>> capacity to copy. And there is contraversy. The origin of the RNA itself
>>>> is unknown.
>>>
>>>
>>> Controversy is easy to create using false claims as well as
>>> unfalsifiable claims:
>>>
>>> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10058490/>
>>> **********************************
>>> Oligomerization of cyclic purine and pyrimidine nucleotides to yield
>>> short RNA oligomers has also been demonstrated under various
>>> conditions.
>>> **********************************
>> I read this entire article the direction of the article is directed
>> towards life on other planets, but it does make an effort to account for
>> life on this planet, but it does not pretend that the origin of the RNA
>> molecule has been discovered. So you are blowing smoke, trying to hide
>> the truth!
> 
> 
> Once again you accuse me of doing what you do.  Identifying the actual
> origin of RNA is not only impossible but irrelevant.  The relevant
> fact here is that self-replicating RNA is produced abiotically.  And
> that fact disproves your oft-repeated baseless claim that the only
> source of complex information is from a mind.  You can't reasonably
> handwave away these facts, no matter how many times you conveniently
> ignore them.
> 
> 
>> Be honest!
> 
> 
> You first.
> 
> 
>>>> And this doesn't touch the cosmological constants and the
>>>> laws of physics or natural law; which supposedly can be explained by
>>>> applying natural processes and actions.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's the only explanation you have provided so far.  What's
>>> your explanation based on ID?
>>>
>> That's past history and another topic. But it's one that causes a
>> certain atheist some little concern.
> 
> 
> ???  Doesn't it bother you even a tiny bit that the only explanation
> you offer is based on natural processes and actions, while you offer
> zero explanation based on ID?  How is that honest?
> 
The word is "supposedly"! Do you know what that word suggest? Guess not.
> 
>>>>> That's almost a direct quote from the Bible.
>>>>>
>>>> It's saying, in different words almost exactly the same concept as the
>>>> scientific definition of a species. Do you know the most common
>>>> definition species?
>>>>
>>>> "A species is a group of organisms that share a genetic heritage, are
>>>> able to interbreed, and to create offspring that are also fertile.
>>>> Different species are separated from each other by reproductive
>>>> barriers...mountain ranges... genetic barriers that do not allow for
>>>> reproduction between the two populations."
>>>> https://biologydictionary.net/species/
>>>>>
>>>> "A species (pl.: species) is often defined as the largest group of
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