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From: =?UTF-8?B?YmFk8J+SvXNlY3Rvcg==?= <forgetski@_INVALID.net>
Subject: Re: app for precision coordinates
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On 6/24/24 13:27, VanguardLH wrote:
> bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 6/23/24 16:34, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/23/24 10:18, knuttle wrote:
>>>>> On 06/23/2024 9:39 AM, bad sector wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How would I map with precision about 900 planted trees on
>>>>>> google-earth-pro? As a manual method I would think of taking a hundred
>>>>>> readings on each with my phone and averaging them out, but that is a
>>>>>> LOT of work (did it once with a bubble-sextant to win a bet). Is there
>>>>>> an fdroid app to do this sort of thing (not interested in signupware)?
>>>>>> Any other ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know about the  android version, but on the PC version you can
>>>>> add pins to identify a specific location.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the PC version of Google Earth Pro, you can determine the longitude
>>>>> and latitude to six decimal places or get good numbers for location
>>>>> about 300 feet apart.  This 300 feet was calculated by zooming Google
>>>>> Earth to its maximum and reading the coordinates of each location.
>>>>
>>>> About 1/3 of the trees are now just big enough to show on GE but the
>>>> rest are not visible yet. It is to place THESE that I need the
>>>> lat-longs. And I'm looking for about one foot of precision :-) which is
>>>> not easy with the imagery resolution provided out here in the sticks. If
>>>> I were living in the densely populated areas a six inch seedling would
>>>> show but all I get is about a 1.5-2.0 foot circle to show.
>>>>
>>>> During a drinking marathon I once bet with the owner of a hotel I was
>>>> staying at that I could measure the width of his hotel with a
>>>> bubble-sextant to within a foot. So I took like a hundred readings on
>>>> two corners, plotted them and marked the center of each 'blob'. Won the
>>>> $200 bet which today would be like $2000. If I were a codepuncher I'd
>>>> try to write an app that plots for maybe 30 minutes and then coughs up
>>>> the centerpoint of the same sort of blob as the position.
>>>>
>>>> I'll be planting another hundred or so in the next three months so I'd
>>>> like to refine my mapping. 220 of the trees are yellow-cedars not native
>>>> here and many fans are watching to see how they will survive. I want to
>>>> map them on GE and update the pictures from time to time.
>>>
>>> I would think GPS would work to record the locations of the trees.
>>> While different GPS receivers have varying levels of accuracy, even your
>>> phone's GPS radio should suffice.  After all, the trees have to be
>>> planted far enough apart to account for their canopies.
>>>
>>> https://crec.ifas.ufl.edu/media/crecifasufledu/extension/plant-pathology-/greening/pdf/GPSAccuracyforTreeScouting.pdf
>>> https://fruitgrowersnews.com/article/precise-gps-systems-increase-planting-efficiency/
>>>
>>> Since you are at site when planting the trees, use GPS to record where
>>> you planted.  Then use the GPS coordinates, or convert to long-lat, to
>>> position in a map.
>>>
>>> GPS radios in smart phones are accurate to within 3 to 5 meters (1o to
>>> 16 feet).  Don't know far apart you are planting the seedling to account
>>> for their canopy sizes later in life.  If a smart phone's GPS isn't
>>> accurate enough, you can buy GPS receivers that are more accurate.
>>>
>>> I figure if a hand-held GPS navigator is good for recording trails that
>>> it is probably sufficient to record tree locations.
>>
>> thanks for the time to respond
>>
>> I once bought a garmin gps camera attachment for my slr camera but it
>> too was wishy washy; never even tried composing blobs with it. With 900
>> trees (and growing) the only 'involvement' I have time for is putting
>> the smart-phone down and leaving it there to collect its wanderings over
>> maybe fifteen minutes or less. The trees are at different distances but
>> what I want is 1-foot accuracy not so much because it's indispensible
>> but because I'm a sucker for at least a semblance of reality.
>> Google-Earth placemarks is one tool I use giving the trees icons
>> representing the tree species. Ideally I'd like to attach an actual
>> photo of the tree to appear in a popup on click or something along those
>> lines and all of it uploaded instead of locally stored.
>>
>> Not sure if math averaging would give the same result as hitting the
>> center of plotted coordinates but with the processing utility in a phone
>> an APP could ideally produce the ultimately VERY accurate result ...just
>> like I once did with a bubble sextant meant to produce plots in terms of
>> miles at the center of triangles of probabilty. That stunt took half an
>> hour per reading and I did maybe fifty on each of two corners, I forget
>> the actual number, it was a royal pissing contest :-)
> 
> I think averaging would only work well if you managed to get the GPS
> device connected to different GPS satellites within reach.  Then repeat
> by using another different set of 3 GPS satellites.  I would think
> reusing the same 3 GPS satellites to get multiple readings from them
> would result in the same offset (inaccuracy) in each reading.  However,
> maybe walking around in a circle around the focus point to take multiple
> readings might work to average the multiple readings from the same set
> of 3 satellites.
> 
> Someone here mentioned DGPS (differential GPS) which uses ground-based
> positioning stations.  Those have a 200-mile range if there are no
> blocks to the signal (mountains, trees, buildings).  Never got around to
> using those, so no experience with them.  Don't remember seeing a smart
> phone stating it can use DGPS, so you'll likely have to find a GPS
> receiver that can find DGPS stations.

I launch the F-Droid app *GPSTest* which tunes in a long list of satellites.

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.android.gpstest.osmdroid/


I have no idea how it arrives at the annunciated Lat-Long but it's 
changing continuously and what I have in mind is an automated way of 
virtually plotting these positions over a few minutes and picking the 
plot-centerpoint as THE position. I haven't tried any of the math yet to 
get a feel for those 7 decimal readouts and what they mean in terms of 
feet but I figure that there must be some added precision to squeeze out 
of THEM as opposed to just any ONE of them.