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NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2024 00:48:51 +0000
Subject: Re: vis-viva and vis-motrix
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
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From: Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2024 17:49:02 -0700
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On 09/30/2024 11:48 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am Montag000030, 30.09.2024 um 20:55 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
>> On 09/29/2024 10:20 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am Samstag000028, 28.09.2024 um 23:57 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
>>>> On 09/28/2024 01:57 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>> Am Donnerstag000026, 26.09.2024 um 22:41 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
>>>>>> On 09/26/2024 10:39 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 09/25/2024 01:55 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 09/22/2024 11:37 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/22/2024 09:59 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/17/2024 11:41 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/17/2024 04:34 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anybody even bother to think about vis-viva versus vis-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motrix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore, with regards to conservation, momentum, inertia,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and potential and impulse energy?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course not. These are obsolete distinctions,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a time when energy and momentum conservation was not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corectly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The matter was put to rest by Christiaan Huygens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by showing (for particle collisions)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that momentum conservation and energy conservation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are distinct conservation laws, that are both needed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it usually considered at all that momentum and inertia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> places with respect to resistance to change of motion and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> respectively sort of back and forth in the theory since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> antiquity?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Several times?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Au contraire, there is yet definition up, in the air, as it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Find any reference to fictitious forces and for a theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the potential fields are what's real and the classical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> field's just a projection to a perspective in the middle,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and anything at all to do with the plainly empirical or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tribological with regards to our grandly theoretical,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and one may find that the definitions of "inertia" and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "momentum" with regards to resistance to changes in motion
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and resistance to changes in rest, as with regards to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> weight and as with regards to heft, have rotated each
>>>>>>>>>>>>> few hundred years, as with regards to the great schism
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whence Newton's vis-motrix, as with regards to the vis-insita
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Leibnitz' vis-viva, as what for example can be read into
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the Wikipedia on conservation of _energy_ and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conservation
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of _momentum_ up to today, where for example, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "infinitely- many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher orders of theoretical acceleration are both formally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-zero and vanishing" because "zero meters/second
>>>>>>>>>>>>> equals infinity seconds/meter".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, for a true centrifugal, and quite all about the derivative
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and anti-derivative as with regards to momentum, inertia,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and kinetic energy, in a theory what's of course
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-histories
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-potentials with least action and gradient, or sum-of-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentials,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is so that the various under-defined concepts of the plain
>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of after Newton, are as yet un-defined, and there are a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> variety
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of considerations as with regards to the multiplicities, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> these singularities, and the reciprocities, of these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> projections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, some of these considerations as since "Mediaeval Times",
>>>>>>>>>>>>> help reflect that Einstein's not alone in his, 'attack on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newton'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moment and Motion:  a story of momentum
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH-Gh-
>>>>>>>>>>>> bBb7M&list=PLb7rLSBiE7F4eHy5vT61UYFR7_BIhwcOY
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Theories and principles, momentum and sum-of-histories
>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-potentials, conservation, momentum and inertia
>>>>>>>>>>>> and energy, fields and forces, Einstein's mechanics,
>>>>>>>>>>>> conservation of energy and conservation of momentum,
>>>>>>>>>>>> potential and fictitious and causal and virtual, mv, mv^2,
>>>>>>>>>>>> ordinary and extra-ordinary in the differential and inverses,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the standard curriculum and the super-standard, momentum
>>>>>>>>>>>> in definition, classical exposition, Bayes rule and a law of
>>>>>>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers, law(s) of large numbers and not-Bayesian expectations,
>>>>>>>>>>>> numerical methods in derivations, uniqueness results later
>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctness results, law(s) of large numbers and continuity,
>>>>>>>>>>>> complete and replete, induction and limits, partials and
>>>>>>>>>>>> limits,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the paleo-classical, platforms and planks, mass and weight
>>>>>>>>>>>> and heft, gravitational force and g-forces, measure and
>>>>>>>>>>>> matching measure, relativity and a difference between
>>>>>>>>>>>> rest and motion, heft, resistance to gravity, ideals and
>>>>>>>>>>>> billiard mechanics, wider ideals, Wallis and Huygens,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nayfeh's nonlinear oscillations, addition of vectors,
>>>>>>>>>>>> observables and ideals, DesCartes' and Kelvin's vortices,
>>>>>>>>>>>> black holes and white holes, waves and optics, Euler, both
>>>>>>>>>>>> vis-motrix and vis-viva, d'Alembert's principle, Lagrange,
>>>>>>>>>>>> potential as integral over space, Maupertuis and Gauss
>>>>>>>>>>>> and least action and least constraint, Hamilton,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hamiltonians and Bayesians, Jacobi, Navier and Stokes
>>>>>>>>>>>> and Cauchy and Saint Venant and Maxwell, statistical
>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics and entropy and least action, ideal and real,
>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanical reduction and severe abstraction, ions and
>>>>>>>>>>>> fields and field theory, wave mechanics and virtual particles,
>>>>>>>>>>>> ideals and the ideal, the classical and monistic holism, paleo-
>>>>>>>>>>>> nouveau.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Much like the theories of "fall", "shadow", or
>>>>>>>>>>> "push" gravity, or the "shadow" or "umbral"
>>>>>>>>>>> gravity and for theories of real supergravity,
>>>>>>>>>>> as after Fatio and LeSage, as of theories of
>>>>>>>>>>> "pull" or "suck" gravity of Newton and the
>>>>>>>>>>> "rubber-sheet" or "down" gravity of Einstein,
>>>>>>>>>>> then the theories of vortices like DesCartes
>>>>>>>>>>> and Kelvin, and others, help reflect on the
>>>>>>>>>>> rectilinear and curvilinear, and flat and round,
>>>>>>>>>>> as with regards to deconstructive accounts of
>>>>>>>>>>> usual unstated assumptions and the severe
>>>>>>>>>>> abstraction and mechanical reduction, in as
>>>>>>>>>>> with regards to modern theories of mechanics.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Zero meters per second is infinity seconds per meter.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You know, zero meters per second is infinity seconds per meter,
>>>>>>>>>> and, any change of anything in motion has associated the
>>>>>>>>>> infinitely-many higher orders of acceleration, and,
>>>>>>>>>> it's rather underdefined and even undefined yet very
>>>>>>>>>> obviously clearly is an aspect of the mathematical model,
>>>>>>>>>> that Galileo's and Newton's laws of motion, sort of are
>>>>>>>>>> only a "principal branch" as it were, and, don't quite suffice.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Of course anything that would add infinitely-many higher
>>>>>>>>>> orders of acceleration mathematically to the theory,
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