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NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 06:31:30 +0000
Subject: Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ?
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From: "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Organization: wokiesux
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 01:31:30 -0500
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On 12/19/24 5:04 AM, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> 
>> On 12/18/24 2:19 PM, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 17 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 10:22:36 +0100, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ahh.. ok, now I know. "Her books and characters serve as the basis for
>>>>> the internationally successful TV series Rebecka Martinsson." I've 
>>>>> seen
>>>>> an episode or two when visiting Stockholm, since my father really 
>>>>> enjoys
>>>>> criminal shows.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't know it had become a TV series. Amazon has it for $18 for the
>>>> first year. I'll have to try it when I finish the 'Leverage' series.
>>>>
>>>> 'Leverage' is sort of apropos. It's a team of grifters and thieves that
>>>> take down people like corrupt insurance CEOs. They don't shoot them but
>>>> expose them and clean out their accounts to reimburse those that they
>>>> screwed.
>>>
>>> I'm currently watching Pantheon. It is animated, but I find it quite 
>>> well researched when it comes to the transhumanist theme of mind 
>>> uploading. I suspect the second season will not be as good as the 
>>> first, and towards the end the quality dropped. But it has a good start!
>>
>>
>>  Alas, like time travel, the more you think about
>>  'mind uploading' the more improbable it seems.
>>  'Mind' is COMPLICATED ... and there's more than
>>  just neurons involved. 'Mind' is an 'environment'.
> 
> This is the truth! I like transhumanists as much as the next guy, but 
> sometimes I think their technology optimists comes too close to religion 
> for my comfort.

   Religions and related philosophies often think of
   some kind of magical 'essence of being' that can
   drift around. It's from the dark ages and beyond.
   Great for horror movie plots though.

   Quite often we see papers describing how any of dozens
   of 'helper' cells are modulating neuron activity on
   the large and small scale. Some have neuron-ish qualities
   unto themselves. The big blob of meat is a UNIT. You can
   digitize the fine state of every neuron and you'll just
   get an infunctional MESS on the other end.

   It's kinda All Or Nothing. We're not built like
   computers - 'evo-goo' instead.

   (hey, I *like* that term and officially claim it :-)

> Yes, I see no reason that should make uploading impossible, in theory, 
> but we have no clue about how the mind works, so there could be plenty 
> of reasons it won't work. Add to that the enormous quantum leap (or 
> multiple quantum leaps) in technology, before being able to even 
> physically replicate it. But with the religious, once I try that 
> conversational track, I am shouted down and bood. =(


   IM-possible, no - but you're not just gonna do some
   kind of fancy MRI and transport a "mind" into any
   one or any thing.


> So basically, they extrapolate from 1 + 1 = 2, to a billion trillion and 
> often handwave away the steps in between. That is what makes some of 
> them religious in my opinion.

   It's the 'hand-wave' thing that sunk the first AI paradigm.
   Marv Minsky (who posted on usenet for awhile) and friends
   saw how easily 'decisions' could be done with a transistor
   or two and assumed it would thus be easy to build an AI.
   AC Clarke used the Minsky optimism when fashioning the
   idea of "HAL".

   But it all imploded. Turned out there were billions of
   steps between input and that final, transistor-like,
   decision. A photo-lightswitch is not 'intelligent'.


>>  As for "Robin Hoods" - there are many ways of looking
>>  at that paradigm. Who "deserves" what ... not so easy.
> 
> Robin Hoods? You mean stealing from the government and giving to the 
> people? The eternal libertarian hero?

   Um ... more 'commie' hero ....