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NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2024 04:56:57 +0000
Subject: Re: The joy of FORTRAN
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From: "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Organization: wokiesux
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2024 00:56:56 -0400
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On 9/30/24 5:19 PM, Peter Flass wrote:
> 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>> On 9/30/24 3:26 AM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 22:38:25 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have NO idea what PayPal/EBay/etc use. If they're smart they'll kinda
>>>> HIDE that. Whatever it is, it's probably translated into 'C' at some
>>>> point to build the final executables.
>>>
>>> Assuming PayPal etc lasts 30 years do you think they will have at some
>>> point rewritten their entire codebase in the flavor of the day or will
>>> UseNet in 2054 be talking about the ugly, obsolete patched up mess?
>>
>>    The ugly patched MESS  :-)
>>
>>    BET on it !
>>
>>    Rewriting large code-bases ... TOO time consuming,
>>    TOO risky, TOO expensive - so they WON'T. It's like
>>    the old COBOL code in recent threads here. Hire a
>>    few gurus and PATCH PATCH PATCH.
>>
> 
> The problem with trying to rewrite old software, and I’ve done it, is that
> the only “specification” is the code itself. You either write a lot of code
> that may have been in the old program but never used, or miss a line of
> code that doesn’t seem to do anything that causes the whole thing to blow
> up if it’s not there. There’s no way you can test enough to guarantee that
> the new system is 100% compatible with the old one. I would never recommend
> rewriting a working system.

   Technically, I agree. However, as mentioned, PRACTICAL
   issues intervene. Time/MONEY/reliability are also very
   important. These ain't the filthy-rich 60s anymore so
   if it WORKS you DON'T mess with it.

   So, in the real world, it's gonna be PATCH PATCH PATCH
   until the whole world literally implodes.

   My best guess, govt/mil/some-biz, will STILL be using
   1960s COBOL apps AND the 1960s HARDWARE even 25 years
   from now.

   "AI" might come to the rescue here ... systems tuned
   to properly understand old code (and their original
   hardware) and re-write in something newer (if not
   greater). Having HUMANS try to re-do such huge
   code-bases is not realistic ... it'll HAVE to be
   99.9% automated. For govt/mil it'll have to have
   proven ULTRA-reliable. And esp the mil stuff - it'd
   better work perfectly OR ELSE.

   Some decades ago there was a push to induce/force
   the entire world to use a synthetic language called
   "Esperanto". However what would old Greek or Roman
   or Asian prose and poetry have SOUNDED like in that
   lang ? Like CRAP. A "haiku" is meant to sound/feel
   right, but only in Japanese.

   From the 60s into the early 80s, a VAST number of
   computer languages were created and USED in more
   or less relevant roles. Some had large libs writ
   by super-experts we may never find again that
   did all sorts of esoteric sci/eng/math/stat/AI/DB
   stuff. This stuff is still woven into The System
   at all kinds of, oft unexpected, levels. There
   are TCL/TK apps that are still in the Linux/Unix
   standard utilities even though pretty much NOBODY
   develops NEW stuff using that. But yes, there ARE
   still fanatical enthusiasts .....

   I still write some FORTH stuff just for fun and
   kicks. It was kinda MEANT for very early CPUs
   and esp microcontrollers because it was so "light".
   Every new installation I always add a FORTH
   compiler Just Because. My last employer, I think
   there's at least STILL one FORTH app for dealing
   with collections of environmental data. A cousin
   of mine, in the Sciences, is extra well-versed
   in FORTH because that's what they had/wanted to
   use Back In The Day to control embedded devices.

   The Past does NOT go away gently.

   Oh well, I've gone on too long again .....