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Subject: Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved
 criteria is met
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
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From: Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 03:06:56 +0100
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On 27/06/2024 02:52, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/26/24 9:30 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>> On 27/06/2024 02:15, Mike Terry wrote:
>>> On 27/06/2024 01:42, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/26/24 8:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:55 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/26/24 7:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/26/24 9:42 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/25/24 11:42 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is not the way that it actually works.
>>>>>>>>>>> That the the way that lies are defined.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Source for you claim?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where is you finite set of steps from the truthmakers of the system to that claim?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55�������������� push ebp����� ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec������������ mov ebp,esp�� ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000������ push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff������ call 000015d2 ; call H0(DDD)
>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404���������� add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d�������������� pop ebp
>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3�������������� ret
>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The call from DDD to H0(DDD) when DDD is correctly emulated
>>>>>>>>> by H0 cannot possibly return.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure it can. I have shown an H0 that does so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I already told you that example does not count.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't keep repeating those details or others
>>>>>>> that so far have no idea what an x86 emulator is
>>>>>>> will be baffled beyond all hope of comprehension.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WHy not?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We have already been over that you know that you cheated.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope, since you didn't put in the rule, and if you had it would have shown that you lied, as if 
>>>> H0 is a pure function then the call to H0 emulated by H0 needs to have the same behaivor as the 
>>>> direct call to H0 by main.
>>>
>>> Incidentally, the nonconformance you're referring to is shown explicitly in the "195 page trace" 
>>> that PO linked to.� [I.e. the simulated H does not correctly track the code path of the outer H.]
>>
>> I suppose I should have made clear, that's not simply due to the simulated H being aborted.� There 
>> is an instruction in H:�� [actually, in Init_Halts_HH()]
>>
>> [000012e4] 753b jnz 00001321
>>
>> and in outer H control proceeds to 000012e6� [i.e. branch not taken],
>> whilein simulated H control proceeds to 00001321� [i.e. branch taken]
>>
>>
>> Mike.
>>
> 
> Would need to look closer at the code, but I bet that the simulated machine is looking into the 
> trace buffer to see if it is simulated or not.

Has PO published the C code for the trace?  Anyhow, given that its in Init_Halts_HH(), I expect its 
a global area being initialised - probably the global trace table.

> 
> In effect, it is misusing static memory just like he says isn't allowed.

Right.


Mike.