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From: "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain
Date: Sun, 4 May 2025 19:34:34 +0200
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On 2025-05-04 17:23, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 5/4/25 10:49, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 04/05/2025 01:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2025-05-04 01:53, john larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 3 May 2025 23:55:17 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2025-05-03 17:12, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 3 May 2025 14:24:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2025-05-02 12:03, Martin Brown wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> Spain doesn't have a great deal of battery storage or pumped water.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Network grade batteries, none, I believe. There are plans for water
>>>>>>> pump/generators. Some of the islands do have them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems that solar panels and wind farms mostly have the type of
>>>>>>> inverter that follow the shape of the voltage already in the 
>>>>>>> grid, with
>>>>>>> detection to bail out if things go nuts. There is the suspicion that
>>>>>>> this was at least part of the problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But there is another type of inverters that force the shape, ie,
>>>>>>> simulate inertia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where do they get the energy from?
>>>>>
>>>>> Where does a gas turbine get the energy from?
>>>>
>>>> Wait, wait, let me think....
>>>>
>>>> Inertia, and then burning gas?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, same thing.
>>>
>>> Batteries, and panels and wind flaps.
>>
>> But you do have to have serious stored energy available at the drop of 
>> a hat if the inverter is to effectively resist frequency being pulled 
>> down by the load.
> 
> Not really. It should have a few percent of margin to increase
> power delivered when the frequency drops. The point is that the
> mains grid is composed of many generators. This only works if they
> take collective action. The European grid collectively has a target
> dP/dF in the 20GW/Hz ballpark. Any single installation will provide
> only a tiny, tiny contribution.
> 
> Solar PV is sufficiently important in Spain that it should contribute
> its part. (It's in the 19GW ballpark, more than half of demand during
> daytime.) I don't know if it does.

There are days when renewables have met the entire demand.

....


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.