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From: will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: The Lime sock on Stephan Pickering and NAMBLA
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 15:36:46 +0000
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:06:42 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 3:37:09 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>>>>>>> I am publishing an AAPC poetry journal featuring award-winning poets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you say vanity press?
>>>>>
>>>>> A vanity press charges a "reading" or "submission" fee.
>>>>
>>>> Do you pay in contributors copies?
>>>
>>> Almost.  I don't receive any money for them.  They're sold at cost.

So, like I said, your publication is basically vanity press, poets
published in your book have to pay to see a copy of the book their
poetry is published in.

Good luck with your vanity press venture.

>> So... no.
>>
>>>>>>>>> After Jim and Stephan became engaged in a prolonged flamewar

Eventually dragging everyone in.

>>>>>>>>> off the Sampler, the second thing you did was start flooding the group
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> a nasty, libellous document that NG had written.

Lest we forget ^^^

>>>>>> Oh yes, the last resort, flood the newsgroup with your lies and
>>>>>> misrepresentations.

Exactly, nailed it.

>>>>> There was no such "libellous[sic]" document
>>>>
>>>> George Dance saw it differently.
>>>
>>> He certainly spelled it differently.

George Dance got his point across, spelling lames notwithstanding.

>>>>>>>> Grim times for the poetry newsgroup indeed.
>
>>>>>> There's no guidelines on who we "allow" to be here on a Usenet
>>>>>> newsgroup.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephan Pickering knew poetry and made many good poetry posts.
>
>>>> Pretty good poetry, as I recall.
>>>> Stephan Pickering has written some interesting poems over the years.
>
>>>>>>>>> The third thing you did, a month or so of that, when Jim and Stephan
>>>>>>>>> were thoroughly
>>>>>>>>> engaged with each other, you went deep diving outside the group for
>>>>>>>>> information on NAMBLA, and found a quotation from Allan Ginsberg
>>>>>>>>> ("I have never had sex with anyone under 15"

Under 18-19, we now know.

>>>> The youngest sex partner Allen Ginsberg is known to have was the 18-19
>>>> year old man
>
>>>>>> And later it turns out the youngest sex partner Allen Ginsberg is known
>>>>>> to have was an 18-19 year old man.
>
>> He was 18 and then turned 19.
>> Unless something new has surfaced, there's zero evidence.
>
> IIRC, Ginsberg tacitly admitted it in one or more interviews.
>
>>>> There's an interview with the fellow, I don't remember his name right
>>>> now.
>
>>>>>>>>> posting here, falsely calling Ginsberg a "pedophile" (or predator);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which, from the evidence, wasn't true, as shown above.
>>
>> Again, more on this later.
>
>>>>>>  and then
>>>>>>>>> when others objected to that (like Stephan, Will, or myself), you began
>>>>>>>>> calling those people "pedophiles" as well.

Harry/Pendragon has apparently forgotten that he began this line of name
calling.

>>>>>> That's when the bullshit from Pendragon began to get heavy.

And hot progressively worse.

>>>>>>>>>> Most likely Jim had falsely condemned Ginsberg as
>>>>>>>>>> a child molester
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which wasn't actually true, by all evidence.
>>
>> Not statements but actual evidence.
>>
>> I looked twenty years ago and found no actual evidence, more on this
>> later.
>
>> I'll have to research this again, since I haven't read the details in
>> over twenty years.
>
>>>>>> and Pickering (who worshipped Ginsberg) spazzed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is a fair summary of what I just said, though you left out that you
>>>>>>>>> (and Jim)
>>>>>>>>> were calling Stephan a child molester as well. No one appreciates being
>>>>>>>>> called names like that by cowardly trolls on the internet.
>>
>> Which led to Tit for Tat behavior over time.
>> Again, I remember that.
>
>>>>>> At that point Pendragon and Senetto were trying any dirty trick to drive
>>>>>> Stephan Pickering away from this newsgroup.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And so it goes.
>>
>> I doubt you'll argue this, Pendragon, since you once bragged about doing
>> this in the 1950s music group.
>
> I never made any such boast

I don't remember the details but Bruce and Diane still go ballistic if
your name comes up, due to your years of malicious personal attacks and
trolling on the 1950s music Usenet newsgroup.

> I bragged about torturing the living bejeezus out of PhillyGuy for fun
> and amusement.  I never made up anything to win an argument there.

You made things up about Philly Guy though, correct?

> I researched, and posted, historical sources for every argument I made.
> In fact, I got so good at researching 50s music, that I eventually wrote
> a 2 volume book on the topic:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/MUSIC-Definitive-History-American-Popular/dp/B08D4VRR83/ref
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Music-Two-Definitive-American-1964-1964/dp/B08F6CGF5S?ref

That looks really interesting, actually

> 1) Orthodox Jews who
> arrange marriages for their children usually go to a matchmaker; 2) they
> would also ensure that their daughter had a chaperone whenever she and
> Pickles were together; 3) they would not have had any reason for wanting
> to bring a penniless  boy whose violent, alcoholic father had been shot
> by his mother-in-law into their family; 4) they most certainly would
> *NOT* under any circumstances, have fixed her up with a non-Jew. (This
> was long before Pick's alleged self-conversion.)  Pick's father *may*
> have been Jewish (Pick never said), but Jewish identity is determined
> along matriarchal lines (that is, through the mother).
>
> Orthodox Jews cannot marry non-Jews.  If an Orthodox Jew's daughter
> marries a "goy" (a non-Jew) her parents must sit Shiva for her (hold the
> equivalent of a wake), cut off all ties with her, and consider her as
> being dead to them.
>
> The second statutory rape supposedly occurred in Israel -- a year or two
> after Pickles graduated high school.  He claims that he impregnated, and
> then married, this woman.  However, Pickle's correspondence to Forrest
> Ackerman firmly establishes that he was in Los Angeles at the time.
>
> --