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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Helmet efficacy test
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 19:26:40 -0400
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On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 17:51:47 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/27/2025 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 15:46:01 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3/27/2025 2:58 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>> On 3/27/2025 2:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 3/27/2025 12:03 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 12:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 11:11 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 5:10 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 16:54:11 +0700, John B.
>>>>>>>>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 03:41:46 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 09:48:09 +0700, John B.
>>>>>>>>>>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 09:54:32 -0400, Zen Cycle
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 10:11 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 12:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 11:02 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 25.03.2025 um 16:53 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 11:11:14 -0400, Zen Cycle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/2025 4:19 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 21:20:38 -0400, Frank
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bicycling has never been a major source
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of serious traumatic brain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> injury (TBI). On a nationwide basis,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bicycling's contribution to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counts is low enough to be off most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "causes" charts. Bicycling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fewer then 1% of U.S. TBI deaths, far
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fewer than pedestrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far fewer on a "per mile" basis. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> historic data over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years shows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite clearly that bicycle helmets are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not preventing either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fatalities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or concussions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Impossible to document that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong, as usual.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PMC7025438/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> s41598-023-35728-x
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Releases/2021/New- CDC- Report-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finds-More-Adults-Are-Dying-from-Bicycle-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Related- Accidents- CPSC-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Says-it-Highlights-the-Importance-of-Helmets
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nsc.org/safety-first/bicycle-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> safety- statistics-may-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprise-you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> srsltid=AfmBOoq4LC_IGLItTnDBXBm4Yu6K20nqSHjsZbqpkk-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jQ2y4Y1J7hfbf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://biausa.org/public-affairs/media/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep- your-brain- safe-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while- biking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> article/150/3/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e2022058878/188764/Helmet-Use-in-Preventing-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Head- Injuries-in?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> autologincheck=redirected
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These all contradict Frank, but that isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the point of this message.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The point of this message is to point out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once again, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsubstantiated conclusions rooted in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> willful ignorance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How one would go about proving that bicycle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helmets are not preventing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either fatalities or concussions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Statistical accident analysis, just like it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was possible to show the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use of seat belts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is valid for groups and more accurate on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the probabilities for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger groups and/or for greater frequency
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incidents.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, as noted here often, any given individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any given incident
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fall anywhere along those curves.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll agree with that last statement, with some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reservations. But I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point out that the helmet propaganda tends to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say that _anyone_ is at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk of death or worse if they _ever_ ride
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without a helmet. Example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You can fall over in your driveway and die."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never seen any literature as alarmist as that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Frank has number of times, mentioned this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I'll point out that the helmet propaganda tends
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to say that _anyone_
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is at risk of death or worse if they _ever_ ride
>>>>>>>>>>>>> without a helmet.".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admittedly I don't spend my time reading helmet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> advertisements but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never come across this. Perhaps Frank could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> post a number of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> references so we all can be aware of that these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> evil minded scoundrels
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Krygowski can't argue the facts, he has to make up
>>>>>>>>>>>> ridiculous childish
>>>>>>>>>>>> strawmen to attack. As usual, he goes on and on as
>>>>>>>>>>>> if he had something
>>>>>>>>>>>> important to say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Junior (Zen) has pretty much whipped Frank now so
>>>>>>>>>>>> he has changed to
>>>>>>>>>>>> his secondary tactic. He changes the subject and
>>>>>>>>>>>> demands that Junior
>>>>>>>>>>>> explain why he's promoting helmets, which, near as
>>>>>>>>>>>> I can see, is not,
>>>>>>>>>>>> at all, what Junior is doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd be more interested in why Krygowski is trying
>>>>>>>>>>>> to convince people
>>>>>>>>>>>> not to wear helmets. It's really no skin off his
>>>>>>>>>>>> nose if some people
>>>>>>>>>>>> choose to wear them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well... its no skin off anyone's back whether you
>>>>>>>>>>> pray to "The God of
>>>>>>>>>>> Abraham" and call him "Allah", or "Yahweh", or
>>>>>>>>>>> "Jehovah" but the
>>>>>>>>>>> adherents have spent nearly as many years killing
>>>>>>>>>>> each other "in the
>>>>>>>>>>> name of God" as they have spent praying.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thus, I suspect, that no matter of any proof to the
>>>>>>>>>>> contrary Frankie
>>>>>>>>>>> will go on demanding that "his way" is the "only
>>>>>>>>>>> way" and all should
>>>>>>>>>>> adhere to his beliefs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Humans fight over the stupidest, nonsensical things.
>>>>>>>>>> Look at the
>>>>>>>>>> morons in the US Congress wanting to
>>>>>>>>>> "censor" (whatever that means)
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