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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
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Subject: Re: [OT] German politician successfully prosecuted for telling the truth
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In article <v2sq2l$2t61k$3@dont-email.me>, FPP <fredp1571@gmail.com> 
wrote:

> On 5/25/24 12:00 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > On May 24, 2024 at 7:34:05 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 5/24/2024 7:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 5/24/2024 2:53 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>> In article <v2q9me$2ce49$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/23/2024 10:53 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>>>> On May 23, 2024 at 7:29:19 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> 
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So, if you mean to defend against this "incitement of hatred"
> >>>>>>>>>> charge, you'll have to argue either that the very concept is
> >>>>>>>>>> unconstitutional
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, we're talking about Germany here not America, so 
> >>>>>>>>> 'unconstitutional' isn't on the table, but yes, if this kind
> >>>>>>>>> of law were to be passed here, it would absolutely without
> >>>>>>>>> question be unconstitutional.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> or that there's no valid reason it applies here.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> There's no valid reason it should apply anywhere.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Yet "incitement to hate" is a thing you recognize and deplore. 
> >>>>>>>> (Isn't it?)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> No.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Then I venture that you're purer than most. How do you characterize,
> >>>>>> e.g., a speech alleging that Jews drink the blood of infants? Isn't
> >>>>>> there a key difference to saying, e.g., Jews are Martians?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cattle can be incited to action.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Humans are responsible for their own actions. You don't get to duck
> >>>>> responsibility for rioting or hating or whatever by claiming someone
> >>>>> incited you and you became a mindless automaton incapable of 
> >>>>> independent
> >>>>> thought or action.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you're hating, it's because you chose to, not because someone 
> >>>>> incited you.
> >>>>
> >>>> This isn't about responsibility for an action, or even for hate.  It's
> >>>> about whether "incitement to hate" -- regardless of whether anyone's
> >>>> thus incited -- is a recognizable concept we can generally identify.
> >>>   
> >>> No. As I said, people are responsible for their own actions. And 'hate'
> >>> isn't an action anyway. It's a thought or an emotion, two things the 
> >>> state has no business regulating in the first place.
> >>
> >> What people do or feel is irrelevant. The crime that'd be alleged by
> >> "incitement to hate" is what you *tried* to have them do or feel.
> > 
> > Well, that would be the only crime in legal history where the attempt is
> > punishable but actually completing the crime is not.
> > 
> > The legal dystopia you'd create if you were in charge is stupefying.

> So what? It's the law. I don't care what it WOULD be... it's on the books.

Said the bus driver to Rosa Parks.