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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Oxford Music Professors: Sheet Music is White Supremacy
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In article <v2foco$1mk4$1@dont-email.me>, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> 
wrote:

> On 5/19/2024 7:30 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >> On 5/19/2024 4:28 PM, Rhino wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:22:51 -0400
> >>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 5/18/2024 8:08 PM, Rhino wrote:
> >>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 19:15:05 -0400
> >>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/18/2024 4:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article <v2b0i8$2u4t7$3@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 1:48 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> In article <v2akce$2roir$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>>>>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 12:09 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On May 17, 2024 at 6:43:52 PM PDT, "Rhino"
> >>>>>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 00:42:52 -0700
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 May 2024 13:09:59 -0700, BTR1701
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, and because the current system isn't a dream for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sight-readers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that means it's a racist form of white supremacy.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Because only white people can sight read perfectly or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something.)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rolls eyes>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure there were and are a few black
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> musicians who have managed the feat and somehow a lot of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the concert pianists these days
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are of Asian origin...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't expect that to continue if I were you.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> As I understand it, Asian musicians expressed concerns that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> they weren't getting performance gigs as white musicians and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> attributed this to race. To address that, all or most
> >>>>>>>>>>>> auditions for orchestras started being done behind screens so
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that the judges could only hear the performance but not see
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the performer. But apparently Asians are now seen as white or
> >>>>>>>>>>>> white allies and a certain group of people who I'll call
> >>>>>>>>>>>> People of Darker Colour (PODC) are demanding that they simply
> >>>>>>>>>>>> be given positions on orchestras without auditioning because
> >>>>>>>>>>>> they have been discriminated against in the past. I assume
> >>>>>>>>>>>> they're proposing some kind of quota system but I'm not sure
> >>>>>>>>>>>> what percentage of the slots they're demanding.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I don't know if this proposal is finding any support
> >>>>>>>>>>>> among the people who decide these things but, given the way
> >>>>>>>>>>>> things are going in general, I would be surprised if this was
> >>>>>>>>>>>> NOT done. Competence is going out of the window to be
> >>>>>>>>>>>> replaced by hiring on the basis of skin colour.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure the usual suspects will be along momentarily to deny
> >>>>>>>>>>>> all of this and/or defend it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, during the height of the Saint Floyd of Fentanyl riots,
> >>>>>>>>>>> where literally everything in America was discovered to be
> >>>>>>>>>>> racist, there was an article in the New York Times that
> >>>>>>>>>>> asserted that the blind audition system used by most
> >>>>>>>>>>> professional orchestras and ensembles was racist because it
> >>>>>>>>>>> *prevents* racial bias in the hiring process.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The 'problem' is that when musicians play behind a screen and
> >>>>>>>>>>> the judges have no idea who the person is, what race they are,
> >>>>>>>>>>> what gender they are, etc., it takes away the judge's ability
> >>>>>>>>>>> to racially discriminate. This used to be considered a good
> >>>>>>>>>>> thing, but in today's woke world, the inability to racially
> >>>>>>>>>>> discriminate (i.e., give preference to blacks over whites) is
> >>>>>>>>>>> a major problem that needs fixing. Blind auditions tend to
> >>>>>>>>>>> result in orchestras being problematically white and Asian.
> >>>>>>>>>>> When pure talent and ability are the only factors available
> >>>>>>>>>>> upon which to base a decision, the resulting orchestras
> >>>>>>>>>>> aren't 'diverse' enough for the intelligentsia.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So now, rather than blind auditions, the wokesters want to
> >>>>>>>>>>> remove that screen so the judges see the players, can actively
> >>>>>>>>>>> discriminate against whites and Asians, and make hiring
> >>>>>>>>>>> decisions based on race and gender, rather than ability to
> >>>>>>>>>>> play the music.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who thinks a level playing field and the elimination of
> >>>>>>>>>>> racial discrimination is the goal of the modern
> >>>>>>>>>>> 'progressive'... well, I have a few bridges to sell them.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> And with all the hand-wringing over how they needed to get rid
> >>>>>>>>>>> of blind auditions so that they can 'fix' the problem of too
> >>>>>>>>>>> many white classical musicians, there strangely was no plan to
> >>>>>>>>>>> 'fix' the problem of too many black basketball players (or any
> >>>>>>>>>>> recognition that it even is a problem in the first place).
> >>>>>>>>>>> Wonder why that is?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In so many words, you're complaining about 'affirmative action'
> >>>>>>>>>> as though it were a moral absurdity. Does that sum up your
> >>>>>>>>>> view?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm complaining about making an orchestra less than world class
> >>>>>>>>> so that you can pat yourself on the back for sticking it to
> >>>>>>>>> whitey.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Yes. Giving someone a seat on stage for any other reason than
> >>>>>>>>> that they can do the job is morally abhorrent. I'm not surprised
> >>>>>>>>> you cheerlead for it.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Of course Asians are historically oppressed minorities, too, and
> >>>>>>>>> they somehow manage to not only make it into these ensembles on
> >>>>>>>>> sheer talent and merit alone, but dominate them. Weird how
> >>>>>>>>> that's not seen as a 'diversity' success but a problem that
> >>>>>>>>> needs 'fixing'.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But the issue in question is 'affirmative action', i.e.:
> >>>>>>>> procedural bias meant to hasten the homogenization of an
> >>>>>>>> artificially bifurcate society.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But in the case of these orchestras, there's nothing artificial
> >>>>>>> about it. The auditions are blind and the chips fall where they
> >>>>>>> may with regard to race, gender, and all the other grievance
> >>>>>>> groups.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A mostly white or Asian orchestra is no more of an artificial
> >>>>>>> occurrence than is a mostly black basketball team. In both cases,
> >>>>>>> the best people for the job are the ones who are hired.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Again, why is a mostly black basketball team perfectly fine, but a
> >>>>>>> mostly Asian orchestra 'problematic'?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Both are historically oppressed minorities and both organizations
> >>>>>>> are what they are because they hired the best people for the job.
> >>>>>>> Why is one a 'diversity success' and the other a problem that
> >>>>>>> needs to be fixed?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Any general policy is subject to second-guessing in any given
> >>>>>> instance.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Which says absolutely nothing as is typical for you when you fail to
> >>>>> defend the indefensible.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let me help you out:  The 'general policy' is to promote blacks,
> >>>> disproportionately if necessary, into visible prominence in order to
> >>>> change societal biases ...and even though every disproportionate such
> >>>> instance will, taken in isolation, feel "unjust".
> >>>>
> >>> And when will there be enough black musicians in orchestras?
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Meanwhile, a pro basketball team is governed by money, not ideals.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Don't you think a pro basketball team would make MORE money if it
> >>>>> had more white players? A considerable portion of their fans and
> >>>>> viewers must be white and I would imagine more white players would
> >>>>> be appreciated by white fans and viewers who would like to see
> >>>>> themselves represented. If my reasoning is correct, the team owners
> >>>>> are walking away from extra income by not having more white players
> >>>>> - and more Asians as well, who might also be basketball fans.
> >>>>
> >>>> Uh, no, not since Jackie Robinson.  Today, teams make money by
> >>>> winning.
> >>>>
> >>> But orchestras must prioritize hiring on the basis of skin colour even
> >>> if it reduces the quality of the orchestra and therefore hurts ticket
> >>> sales, right?
> >>
> >> Yes, competing priorities is a zero-sum game --  a mathematical fact.
> >> And, anyone who sees no value to black faces in major orchestras won't
> >> be pleased at that increased emphasis.
> > 
> > But no need to put white faces on the basketball court, amirite?
> 
> Yes, exactly "rite". Whites aren't presumed too dumb for basketball.
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