Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: NO ONE, by George Dance
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2025 18:46:58 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
Message-ID: <b40def68891760f64d5a51cc111d6629@www.novabbs.com>
References: <06791200291681e988f2ebfb7ba6f40f@www.novabbs.com> <52OdnfP5lZVhkiD6nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> <be4385387817e34d7fb6b005161d8fc7@www.novabbs.com> <5f24edae7ff408835aefcb5a971cac31@www.novabbs.com> <26019d8170c4cbaa8f8cc729a1940b60@www.novabbs.com> <00efd4459d6c531b18e463aa534b9d5b@www.novabbs.com> <9ac65c1e1d39b1188e7652bbdcaf5e67@www.novabbs.com> <c1733c9b88f15ee536b74227004007e9@www.novabbs.com> <9c0755ef14b1423e9b0bf3ef6d6c2c59@www.novabbs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: i2pn2.org;
	logging-data="2229442"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org";
	posting-account="Vf9CM7g99yqfGvzEHTw0bhrjcIfvzYBBhUuRma0rLuQ";
User-Agent: Rocksolid Light
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0
X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10$8pgLSGU/fKGPVpy3OiU0XOH7HMUmhig2r9t7ET.TWZ34XeybaWXX2
X-Rslight-Posting-User: acd0b3e3614eaa6f47211734e4cbca3bfd42bebc

On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 14:14:05 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 13:33:46 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Feb 2025 21:14:54 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 26 Feb 2025 20:12:23 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pendragon, do you pay the poets published in your poetry anthology?
>>>>
>>>> Do you send the poets published a contributors copy of the poetry
>>>> anthology you've published them in?
>>>>
>>>> Do you charge the poets published for a copy of the book they're
>>>> published in?
>>>>
>>>> If the last answer is yes then you're running a vanity press.
>>>>
>>>> HTH and HAND.
>>>
>>> Payment vs non-payment doesn't designate something as a vanity press,
>>> Donkey.
>>>
>>> Non-payment = small press/indie press
>>> partial payment = semi-pro
>>> payment = professional
>>>
>>> This is the industry standard, not my personal opinion.
>>>
>>> The annual anthology, again, is best of the monthly ezine, and can only
>>> be defined in relation to it.
>>>
>>> I do not charge anyone for copies.  The book is published through Amazon
>>> as Print-on-Demand.
>>
>> Lying Michael, you're selling it on Amazon for $17.70.
>> https://www.amazon.com/Year-Sundays-Official-Poetry-Journal/dp/B0DWSW8VNL
>> Amazon didn't set that price; you did.
>>
>>> Amazon charges for printing costs.  I don't receive
>>> any money for it.
>>
>> Once again, HarryLiar, you're charging your writers $17.70 per copy. How
>> much of that you keep as profit, and how much Amazon takes, is
>> irrelevant.
>
> Amazon takes 100% of that, George.
>
> I shouldn't have to explain this to you, as you have published a
> collection of Donkey poems through Amazon.
>
>>> Print-on-Demand came about *after* your brief flirtation with the small
>>> press, and changed the game (and the rules) entirely.
>>
>>> Small press publishers no longer send out contributor copies, because
>>> they no longer print their own copies.
>>
>> You can send out contributor copies using Amazon, HarryLiar. They'll not
>> only print the copies but deliver them as well.
>
> I could.  However, Amazon would charge me for each of those copies.
>
>
>>> Xeroxed saddle stapled copies are a thing of the past.  Full color
>>> perfect bound books cost too much money for a small press publisher to
>>> send out.  So small press publishers adopt different means of paying
>>> their contribs.
>>
>> You're using full color on the pages? That's an expense you don't need.
>> Go to black and white for the inside and you could probably afford to
>> send a copy to all 23 of your writers (assuming you can sell copies to
>> anyone else).
>
> I love the new full color look.  As long as I continue to get the
> artwork, I'm going to continue publishing a full color book.
>
>>
>>> Some allow contribs to open up an online version of their magazine from
>>> which they can download it.  It's not going to be the same as the
>>> perfect bound print version, but it lets them get an idea as to how
>>> their poem would appear in print.
>>>
>>> Others offer their contribs copies at a discounted author's rate (which
>>> is essentially what I do).  They simply charge the authors for cost and
>>> shipping, then order the p-o-d copy for themselves, and forward it to
>>> the author.
>>>
>>> Again, I don't know of any small press publications today that still
>>> send comp. author copies as payment.
>>>
>>> A vanity press is no longer a magazine that charges contributors for
>>> print copies; nor is it even a magazine that charges submission/reading
>>> fees.  Most small, semi-pro, and professional poetry journals now charge
>>> such fees.
>>>
>>> I do not.
>>>
>>> A vanity press today, is basically a press that charges for chapbooks
>>> (as opposed to an author self-publishing).
>>
>> How does that differ from a commercial press? Don't the latter charge
>> for the chapbooks they print?
>
> No.  A commercial press would pay the author one or more of the
> following: 1) an up front fee, 2) residuals, 3) complimentary
> contributor copies.
>
> A vanity press, otoh, charges the author fee to publish their book.
>
> --

The fact remains that your poetry anthology doesn't give contributor's
copies or other "payment" to the poets published, but actually makes
them but a copy of the book to even see the published poetry.

That's definitely in the realm of vanity press.

HTH and HAND.