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From: John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Helmet efficacy test
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2025 09:11:09 +0700
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On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 20:12:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/25/2025 7:58 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 08:49:32 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3/25/2025 6:19 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>> Am 25.03.2025 um 11:11 schrieb John B.:
>>>>> On 25 Mar 2025 08:02:38 GMT, Roger Merriman
>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/24/2025 6:02 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I like to wear helmet for extra protection against a
>>>>>>>> fall. I do agree
>>>>>>>> that for me even running with a helmet would be good
>>>>>>>> since I have no
>>>>>>>> balance to run anymore. However, Frank is I think in
>>>>>>>> the minority about
>>>>>>>> helmets...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, that's not true. In the current echo chamber of
>>>>>>> avid sport
>>>>>>> cyclists I am a minority. But very I'm comfortable with
>>>>>>> not following
>>>>>>> most of the group's trends. I don't use clipless pedals,
>>>>>>> I don't use
>>>>>>> brifters or disk brakes, I don't ride in jerseys that
>>>>>>> advertise my
>>>>>>> favorite products or my favorite racing team, I don't
>>>>>>> use aerodynamic
>>>>>>> sunglasses, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But in the total population of world cyclists, it's the
>>>>>>> helmet wearers
>>>>>>> who are a definite minority.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... and while he may have data to support it sometimes
>>>>>>>> we humans
>>>>>>>> overlook data. I rely sometimes only on intuition and
>>>>>>>> what I think might
>>>>>>>> be good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a common human trait. It leads to lots of bad
>>>>>>> decisions, but it's
>>>>>>> common. It's usually wiser to pay attention to good
>>>>>>> data, when it's
>>>>>>> available.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I really don't understand the length's Frank goes to dis
>>>>>>>> helmets but maybe I am simply taking it more than it is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you check, you'll see I never initiate helmet
>>>>>>> debates. But when
>>>>>>> someone else - um, like you, Mark! - starts stating or
>>>>>>> implying that
>>>>>>> helmets have great benefit, and/or states or implies
>>>>>>> that bicycling is a
>>>>>>> serious risk for brain injury, I do point out that those
>>>>>>> notions are false.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bicycling has never been a major source of serious
>>>>>>> traumatic brain
>>>>>>> injury (TBI). On a nationwide basis, bicycling's
>>>>>>> contribution to TBI
>>>>>>> counts is low enough to be off most "causes" charts.
>>>>>>> Bicycling causes
>>>>>>> fewer then 1% of U.S. TBI deaths, far fewer than
>>>>>>> pedestrian travel, and
>>>>>>> far fewer on a "per mile" basis. And historic data over
>>>>>>> the years shows
>>>>>>> quite clearly that bicycle helmets are not preventing
>>>>>>> either fatalities
>>>>>>> or concussions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Data on request - but it's been posted or linked
>>>>>>> countless times.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Helmets for cycle safety are distraction to use one of UK
>>>>>> bike
>>>>>> personalities/transport experts aka Chris Boardman.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With cycling the danger and risk is almost entirely
>>>>>> introduced by
>>>>>> motorists, which should be the focus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Helmet “debates” as ever seem to go nowhere as folks have
>>>>>> such intrenched
>>>>>> positions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> I've told this story before but once again.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I was working around oil well drilling rigs the word
>>>>> came down
>>>>> from the Drilling Company -  "When you come back from
>>>>> break be sure
>>>>> you are wearing a "Hard Hat"(i.e. helmet) or don't bother
>>>>> to come
>>>>> back". And you know? Everybody came back with a hard hat
>>>>> and there was
>>>>> never a mention,  good, bad or indifferent, whether people
>>>>> wanted to
>>>>> were a helmet, or not, or any of the other  arguments I
>>>>> hear in
>>>>> bicycle circles.
>>>>
>>>> How many people get paid to go bicycling? Most people cycle
>>>> voluntarily, or stop cycling voluntarily.
>>>>
>>>> What is the cost to society if people "don't bother to come
>>>> back" (as hapened in Australia)?
>>>>
>>>> Why did the "don't bother to come back unless you wear a
>>>> seat belt" not work in the USA?
>>>>
>>>
>>> In a perfect world, I would probably wear a seat belt when
>>> driving. But since the State made it mandatory, which
>>> naturally engenders defiance,  I just restrict myself to
>>> exempt autos and drive without.
>> 
>> 
>> (:-) do we assume that you also ignore state laws against, oh say,
>> theft and taxes?
>>   
>
>I'm morally aligned with the statues on theft and resigned 
>to taxes.
>
>But the seatbelt laws are well outside the proper realm of 
>the government.
>
>As mentioned here recently, we either have a government of 
>limited enumerated powers or we do not.

Well... as I posted previously, your state receives a rather
astonishingly large amount of money from the Federal Government and if
you take their money you have to play to their tune :-)
-- 
Cheers,

John B.