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From: wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
Subject: Re: D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive
 simulation [good attempt]
Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 05:35:31 +0800
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On Wed, 2024-05-22 at 16:26 -0500, olcott wrote:
> On 5/22/2024 3:59 PM, wij wrote:
> > On Wed, 2024-05-22 at 15:04 -0500, olcott wrote:
> > > On 5/22/2024 11:11 AM, wij wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2024-05-22 at 10:44 -0500, olcott wrote:
> > > > > On 5/22/2024 3:54 AM, David Brown wrote:
> > > > > > On 21/05/2024 23:56, olcott wrote:
> > > > > > > On 5/21/2024 4:34 PM, bart wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 21/05/2024 19:48, olcott wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 5/21/2024 1:39 PM, Bonita Montero wrote:
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > > You're neither asking about a C- or C++ problem.
> > > > > > > > > > So use a proper newsgroup.
> > > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > There is no other group that knows enough about the seman=
tics of the
> > > > > > > > > C programming language and there is no other group still =
alive that
> > > > > > > > > knows enough about the semantics of programming languages=
..
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Then FFS take it to Reddit, where there are a myriad thrivi=
ng forums,
> > > > > > > > rather than a dying usenet group populated by a few aging r=
egulars.
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > I have taken it to many different forums.
> > > > > > > This is one of two forums where someone actually answered the=
 question.
> > > > > > > Two years ago someone answered the assembly language version =
of the
> > > > > > > question. I think the Reddit banned me for even asking the qu=
estion.
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > The /only/ reason you are not banned here is because unmoderate=
d Usenet
> > > > > > groups cannot ban people.
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > You post obsessively in many places, and face nothing but rejec=
tion,
> > > > > > ridicule, and banning.=C2=A0 Has it ever occurred to you to loo=
k for the
> > > > > > common factor here?=C2=A0 It is /you/, and the posts you make.=
=C2=A0 If you truly
> > > > > > want to make progress on your bizarre ideas, you are going to h=
ave to
> > > > > > re-think your strategy - it is entirely obvious to everyone tha=
t you
> > > > > > will not get the answers you are asking for here or anywhere el=
se with
> > > > > > your current posting style.
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > *On the other hand people could simply answer my question*
> > > > > *I only repeat it until it is answered*
> > > > >=20
> > > > > For every H/D pair matching the following template where
> > > > > H is a pure function:
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Does any D correctly simulated by H reach its own line 06 and
> > > > > halt or does the fact that D remains stuck in recursive simulatio=
n
> > > > > prevent that?
> > > > >=20
> > > > > typedef int (*ptr)();=C2=A0 // ptr is pointer to int function in =
C
> > > > > 00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 int H(ptr p, ptr i);
> > > > > 01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 int D(ptr p)
> > > > > 02=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 {
> > > > > 03=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 int Halt_Statu=
s =3D H(p, p);
> > > > > 04=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if (Halt_Statu=
s)
> > > > > 05=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 HE=
RE: goto HERE;
> > > > > 06=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 return Halt_St=
atus;
> > > > > 07=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }
> > > > > 08
> > > > > 09=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 int main()
> > > > > 10=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 {
> > > > > 11=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 H(D,D);
> > > > > 12=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 return 0;
> > > > > 13=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }
> > > > >=20
> > > > > It is trivial to see that for every H/D pair of the infinite
> > > > > set of H/D pairs that match the above template that
> > > > >=20
> > > > > D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own final
> > > > > state at line 06 and halt because D correctly simulated by
> > > > > H remains stuck in recursive simulation.
> > > > >=20
> > > > > This provides the basis for simulating termination analyzer H to
> > > > > correctly determine that the halting problem's counter-example
> > > > > input D cannot possibly halt.
> > > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > If H is truly a simulator, its function is expected to be equivalen=
t to:
> > > >=20
> > > > int H(ptr x, ptr y) {
> > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 x(y);
> > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 return __WHATEVER;
> > > > }
> > > >=20
> > > > The H(D,D) can never halt.
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Finally someone took 30 seconds to answer, thanks!
> > > *The actual question was slightly different in a very crucial way*
> > >=20
> > > It is trivial to see that for every H/D pair of the infinite
> > > set of H/D pairs that match the above template that
> > >=20
> > > D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own final
> > > state at line 06 and halt because D correctly simulated by
> > > H remains stuck in recursive simulation.
> >=20
> > Correct. H will be stuck in the recursive simulations.
> >=20
> > > *In other words even when H(D,D) terminates normally D*
> > > *correctly simulated by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
> >=20
> > Correct. Because D is programmed to behave the opposite of what the
> > called H inside H reported.
>=20
> No that is not true. D never gets to the point where it can possibly
> do the opposite of whatever H reports.
>=20
> *D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03*
> Thanks for your help.
>=20

Correct.

I was responding to "*In other words even when H(D,D) terminates normally..=
.."