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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 18:03:33 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 3/28/25 3:05 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 3/28/2025 1:07 PM, joes wrote:
>> Am Fri, 28 Mar 2025 12:57:56 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 3/27/2025 9:33 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 3/27/2025 10:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:24 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:09 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:12 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 8:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:02 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:27 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 1:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 2:18 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 27.mrt.2025 om 04:09 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 8:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not very interesting to know whether a simulator
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reports that it is unable to reach the end of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation of a program that halts in direct execution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That IS NOT what HHH is reporting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH correctly rejects DDD because DDD correctly emulated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by HHH cannot possibly reach its own final halt state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, HHH is not a halt decider because it is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computing the required mapping:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I corrected your error dozens of times and you ignore these
>>>>>>>>>>> corrections and mindlessly repeat your error like a bot
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which is what you've been doing for the last three years.
>>>>>>>>>> Projection, as always.  I'll add the above to the list.
>>
>>>>>>> I did not say that no TM can ever report on behavior that matches
>>>>>>> the behavior of a directly executing TM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good, because that's all that's required for a solution to the
>>>>>> halting problem:
>>>>>>
>>>>> There are sometimes when the behavior of TM Description D correctly
>>>>> simulated by UTM1 does not match the behavior correctly simulated by
>>>>> UTM2.
>>>>
>>>> Irrelevant, because to satisfy the requirements, the behavior of the
>>>> described machine when executed directly must be reported.
>>>
>>> I HAVE PROVED THAT THE REQUIREMENT IS WRONG NITWIT.
>>> A FUNCTION THAT IS REQUIRED TO COMPUTE THE SQUARE OF A BOX OF ROCKS IS
>>> ALSO INCORRECT.
> 
>> It is wrong to ask for the behaviour of the direct execution? Anyways,
>> HHH can't do it.
>>
> 
> Unless and until one TM can take another executing
> TM as an input IT IS WRONG TO REQUIRE A TM TO REPORT
> ON SOMETHING THAT IT CANNOT SEE.
> 

So, you don't think that UTMs exist?

I guess Olcott-Computation is a pretty worthless field of endever.

Of course a TM can take the representation of another TM and from that 
has its behavior defined for it.

Your problem is you don't understand the being given the actual 
definition of a Turing Machine (with its input) means that we have been 
given everything need to define (if not know) the behavior of that 
machine when run. Not being able to "See" what has been defined to you, 
is what makes the problem impossible to solve, and thus the mappiing 
non-computable.