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From: Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Grease and waxes
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2024 15:54:52 -0800
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On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 15:45:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 11/16/2024 1:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not sure what Tom "read out" but it probably wasn't the same
>> textbooks that were used in the then current college courses because
>> the libraries didn't stock those textbooks.

>Even if Tom did read all the textbooks used in an engineering 
>curriculum, he would gain only a tiny fraction of the knowledge imparted 
>while earning a legitimate degree.
>
>Classrooms and teachers exist for very good reasons. It should be 
>obvious that knowledge at an engineering level normally requires 
>explanation, because it's difficult to understand. I spent countless 
>hours in class responding to student questions, and yet more hours in my 
>office giving individual help to students.

That's true, but not for every type of student.  Traditionally, people
learn best via verbal lectures, reading printed media, and through lab
experiments.  More recently, we've added via videos and computer
simulations.  They all work, but individual students all have one
method that works best for the student.  The optimum combination is to
have an instructor, professor or mentor available who prefers to teach
using the method favored by the student.  Since it is impossible to
assemble a class where everyone favors the same learning method, it is
up to the instructor to teach using all the methods.  I've seen
instructors who are superb at demonstrating how something works, but
fall apart when trying to explain what is happening (or what might
happen).  As bad luck would have it, the most common methods of
teaching (lecture and reading) are also the methods that are least
preferred by most students.  

>And students don't just repeat what they've learned.

Actually, the do repeat, or should I say regurgitate, what they've
learned.  See "Surely You're Joking Mr Feynman" in the chapter where
he describes teach physics in Brazil.  All the student could do was
pass exams.  Understanding and experiments were beyond their
abilities.

>They are given 
>assignments - problems to solve, projects to complete, parts to design, 
>lab experiments to perform, tests to run, and very difficult exams to 
>pass to demonstrate that they know how to _apply_ the knowledge. Reading 
>every textbook would involve none of that.

Yep.  The motto at Cal Poly Pomona was "Learn by Doing" which I've
modified into "Learn by Destroying".  We had a large contingent for
foreign exchange students who were accustomed to the lower castes
doing all the manual work.  The upper classes never got their hands
dirty.  When it came to lab experiments, they were a hazard to
themselves and everyone nearby.  I'll spare you my horror stories
about engineers who couldn't solder much less operate a screwdriver.

>Recently, in a Barnes & Noble bookstore, I noticed this ludicrous book:
>https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/a-degree-in-a-book-david-baker/1136270544

256 pages.  Age 10 - 14.  That might work as inspiring interest in
engineering in a 10 year old.  See below.

>Right. "Everything you need to know - in one book!" 

At some time in the distant past, my parents decided that I needed an
encyclopedia to help stimulate my education, or something like that.
They purchased the entire Encyclopedia Britannica and a subscription
to their yearbooks.  According to the salesman, the encyclopedia
contained everything that I need to know.  This was 1958, one year
after the launch of Sputnik caused the entire country to panic.  I was
10 years old.

At first I was rather hesitant and avoided using the encyclopedia.  A
little later, I became curious and began looking up things that seemed
interesting.  Basically, everything that I had been warned were
dangerous, socially unacceptable, banned or otherwise "secret"
information.  I don't think my parents realized what I was doing until
after I built and exploded a small bomb and a not very functional
rocket.  My parents were considering a book burning, but were
dissuaded by someone from the army.  This was the start of the space
race.  If the US was expected to "beat the Russians", students needed
to develop an interest in dangerous things, which was exactly what I
was doing.  I won't go into the fiasco that followed, but I will
mention that it was lots of fun and really got me interested in many
different forms of engineering.

It was about 5 years later when I realized that technology did not
stand still and that my personal encyclopedia was seriously out of
date.  My encyclopedia was a fair substitute for a visit to the
library but after a few embarrassing mistakes, I obtained library
cards from multiple libraries and gave up on the encyclopedia.  I also
obtained a "stack pass" to the UCLA (university) library, which was
crammed full of books that I could barely understand.  I asked too
many questions and eventually was declared a pest.  Such is the price
of learning.

>Of course, it made me think of Tom.

I don't think of Tom.  

-- 
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558