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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Todays rant
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2024 17:14:38 -0500
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On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 16:02:12 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:

>On 12/15/2024 2:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/15/2024 1:23 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>>> On 12/15/2024 2:02 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 12/15/2024 10:43 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 11:06:55 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/15/2024 10:11 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On 15 Dec 2024 14:17:03 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 14 Dec 2024 16:52:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/14/2024 8:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 20:59:41 -0600, AMuzi 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 8:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 4:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 1:15 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     The vast majority of the mass shootings that target
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> random victims in schools, malls, and theaters aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committed by people with a violent past, so the argument
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that 'they never committed violence before' is pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much irrelevant to the context of this conversation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I realize there have been a number of instances  at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clubs, bars, and parties where it seems to be related to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gang activity. Those aren't' the types of incidents we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I agree.  The bulk of 'mass shooting' events are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tangential to ongoing criminal activity; at a party, in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar, drive-by in front of a crowd, etc. Utterly different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem (with different possible resolutions) than a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deranged but determined homicidal maniac.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't think of a deterrent/preventive strategy except
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for maybe public execution and I hesitate to assume even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would dissuade Son of Sam, Nikolas Cruz, Richard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ramirez, Stephen Paddock, Jeffrey Dahmer, or their ilk.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One suggestion might be to look at the social conditions in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nations similar to the U.S. but with far fewer killings,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially gun killings, per capita. Emulate what they do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "?No Way To Prevent This,? Says Only Nation Where This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regularly Happens"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this- says-only-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation-where-this-r-1848971668/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not have a snappy solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some context:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/1386759/ mass- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shootings- us-other-developed-world/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/ murder-victims- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in- the-us-by-weapon-used/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass- shootings- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in- the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even if all the "assault weapons" were rounded up and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroyed, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't stop the mass murders nor any other murders. There 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are too
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many other ways to do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where there's a will, there's a way. The problem is there 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the will.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It?s much much harder without a gun and particularly a gun 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that can be
>>>>>>>>>>>> rapidly fired.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mass murders by other means are not impossible but that much 
>>>>>>>>>>>> harder and can
>>>>>>>>>>>> be stopped by brave unarmed people as with the children 
>>>>>>>>>>>> killed in the uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> this summer, which was used by various right wing groups to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> inspire riots
>>>>>>>>>>>> by well lying!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But the suspect was slowed by one of the nursery workers I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> think she died
>>>>>>>>>>>> from her injuries but she was able to slow/prevent and a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> colleague got help
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the Gym? Anyway a large chap who subdued the attacker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Don?t get me wrong I suspect that it would require more than 
>>>>>>>>>>>> just removing
>>>>>>>>>>>> easy access to guns etc, but even that almost certainly would 
>>>>>>>>>>>> have dramatic
>>>>>>>>>>>> effects.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soloman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, yes to some extent.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In the instant example from NYC, Mr Mangione, an engineer,
>>>>>>>>>>> originally planned to make a bomb but decided the risk of
>>>>>>>>>>> injury/death to people other than his target was too high so
>>>>>>>>>>> he made his own firearm and suppressor with a 3D printer.
>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck 'regulating' a capable determined psychopath.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone with basic machining skills can make a Sten. The
>>>>>>>>>>> simple open bolt action design is at the top end of firing
>>>>>>>>>>> rates for automatics:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/guns- and-parts- 
>>>>>>>>>>> seized-man-arrested-in-weapons-raids/ news-story/ 
>>>>>>>>>>> e7addecb691695b3aebdb5b613181132
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I?m sure they could but that?s not the path of least resistance 
>>>>>>>>>> ie to use
>>>>>>>>>> the gun they own.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Although the path of least resistance has changed to 3D print:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/14/australia/ australia-3d- 
>>>>>>>>>>> printed- firearm-intl-hnk/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I believe that?s more criminals trying to avoid detection, than 
>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>> actively used at least in the mass killings.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Criminals shooting each other and the innocents nearby are a
>>>>>>>>>>> real problem. That problem, within bounds of rationality,
>>>>>>>>>>> likely has solutions for mitigation. A madman determined to
>>>>>>>>>>> kill will not be deterred by licensing/prohibition.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Places that have removed guns or from general circulation 
>>>>>>>>>> suggest otherwise
>>>>>>>>>> plus police actions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ie in the uk use of gun means as criminals you?ve instantly 
>>>>>>>>>> made yourself
>>>>>>>>>> UK most wanted, let alone your chance of survival if the armed 
>>>>>>>>>> police
>>>>>>>>>> encounter you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A short walk through the history of anarchist and insurgent
>>>>>>>>>>> bombings shows huge losses.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Occasionally yes, but it?s much harder work and much less 
>>>>>>>>>> numbers certainly
>>>>>>>>>> per year.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> p.s. regarding 'rapid'
>>>>>>>>>>> Modern semi rifles and pistols fire all within the same rate
>>>>>>>>>>> range, which is lower than revolvers BTW and much slower
>>>>>>>>>>> than even primitive home built automatics
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Indeed any gun control would almost certainly target those. As 
>>>>>>>>>> happens in
>>>>>>>>>> various countries.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your reference to using a gun in the UK being a serious crime is
>>>>>>>>> really what makes it less common. If we made carrying a gun while
>>>>>>>>> committing a crime a serious offense with mandatory prison it 
>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>> a serious detereant. Instead we just turn them loose.
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