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Owen Hartnett wrote:

> On Jun 29, 2024 at 2:23:56 AM EDT, "ermintrudethecat" <ermintrudethecat>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that information from a German source which is unusual. My
>> main point is that if the Dresden raid was a war crime, the UK and the
>> USA are equally guilty, as both participated.
>> It's worth mentioning too that in 1940 during the German invasion of
>> France and the Low Countries, it remained British policy to fly by day
>> using light/medium bombers and to attack only military targets. The
>> result was an absolute slaughter of Blenheims, Hampdens, Wellingtons and
>> Battles, with little or no damage to the Wehrmacht.
>>
>
> Nazi Germany led the way with aerial attacks on civilian population at
> Guernica in 1937. After that, since "Germany started it," most of the
> WWII
> nations not only matched the effort, but turned it into a science.
> Coventry in
> England got burned to a crisp by Germany during the raid on 14 November
> 1940
> using incendiary bombs. Dresden followed on 13-14 February 1945, which
> some
> have suggested it was Churchill's revenge for Coventry. All this rapidly
> pales
> before the non-nuclear firebombing of Japan by the US between 1942 and
> 1945,
> killing between 210,000 and 900,000 people, which dwarfs the atomic bomb
> attacks of 35,000 to 50,000 deaths in Hiroshima and 100,000 in Nagasaki.

Interesting info. Thanks. The numbers are a bit wrong wrt hiroshima, but
the rest seems correct.

>
> As to morality, from Wikipedia comes this quote: "According to Robert
> McNamara, who served as an officer in the Army Air Forces under General
> Curtis
> LeMay during the bombings of Japan, LeMay once said that had the United
> States
> lost the war they would have been tried for war crimes, McNamara agrees
> with
> this assessment. McNamara believed that, "He (LeMay), and I'd say I,
> were
> behaving as war criminals." and that "LeMay recognized that what he was
> doing
> would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral
> if
> you lose and not immoral if you win?"

This is moral relativism, but moral, Owen, is something objective,
something universal — it is not dependent on who was victorious and who
was defeated.

Do you think the Nazis and WW2-Japanese had the moral superiority to
give you lectures on morality? Lol

According to the Nazis it was moral to genocide the Jews (subjective) -
according to
Objective morality, the Nazis were immoral.

eichmann was a hero to the Nazis, objectively he was a monster.
Harris was objectively a hero, subjectively - in the eyes of the Nazis -
he was a monster.

There is a right and there is a wrong — doesn’t depend on the side you
are on.

>
> -Owen