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Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!nntp.terraraq.uk!news1.firedrake.org!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: origin of biological chirality? Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 21:48:07 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 50 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <bgj5cjtlus0hd8h0iohn66drg6pcloq4b0@4ax.com> References: <v9rai1$22tkd$1@dont-email.me> <9u94cjl2fv6heurev0aa1mqmcrslj3evv6@4ax.com> <v9tf0u$2fuob$1@dont-email.me> <v9ud5s$2no71$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="56832"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: ForteAgent/7.20.32.1218 To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:OGcVoaezOG09WNJYVn4Jv88szT8= Return-Path: <news@eternal-september.org> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 2F4DA229782; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 00:47:28 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CD32229765 for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 00:47:26 -0400 (EDT) id 31CCA5DC29; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 04:48:13 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay-1.kamens.us (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EAF45DC26 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 04:48:12 +0000 (UTC) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.eternal-september.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 622145F829 for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 04:48:09 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: name/622145F829; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=buzz.off id D3E69DC01A9; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 06:48:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Injection-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2024 06:48:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1+aaPnT0kSYlIhJ2DQQ0hiB0ouK9PcRJXqK9N+82yD9aluOHHWCDdPU HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 smtp.eternal-september.org Bytes: 4686 On Sun, 18 Aug 2024 21:11:53 -0600, the following appeared in talk.origins, posted by Pro Plyd <invalide@invalid.invalid>: >RonO wrote: >> On 8/18/2024 12:01 PM, Bob Casanova wrote: >>> On Sun, 18 Aug 2024 00:08:49 +0100, the following appeared >>> in talk.origins, posted by Ernest Major >> >> For chirality there is an equilibrium ratio between the mirror images. D >> sugars have been known to exist in solution at higher concentrations >> that L forms. My guess is that L forms of amino acids are likely to >> exist at higher concentrations in solution, but it doesn't matter. The >> chirality of life was set by the first enzymatic reactions used by life >> to get started. The use of L amino acids would have been set by the >> first functional proteases that could produce peptide bonds or for the >> RNA world scenario it would have been L amino acids that were probably >> used to make the first nucleotides. The active sites of the first >> replicated enzymes would have set the chirality, and that chirality >> would have been maintained due to subsequent enzymes would have to be >> compatible for the ones that came before. Only one form fits into the >> active site of an enzyme that uses that amino acid or carbohydrate. >> Enzymes have evolved to convert one form into the other because they >> spontaneously change from D to L and if left to themselves you would get >> a mix at a certain ratio in solution. >Quite some time ago I came across (borrowed?) an old >scifi Star Trek novel called "Spock Must Die". There's >even a wiki page for it > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spock_Must_Die! > >Anyways, that bad ol transporter makes a second >Spock. This second Spock was the chiral opposite >of the original Spock and was basically starving >because the food had the wrong chirality. Cool >stuff for 1970. Moral of the story is that the >chirality preference is universal! > Check out the Roger Zelazny novel, "Doorways in the Sand". > > -- Bob C. "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov