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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 02:09:49 +0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 108 Message-ID: <c09f468e8485c22150cedb12a9010b401f292054.camel@gmail.com> References: <vv97ft$3fg66$1@dont-email.me> <vvhf20$1ihs9$1@dont-email.me> <vvhfnd$1hvei$3@dont-email.me> <vvil99$1ugd5$1@dont-email.me> <vvinvp$1vglb$1@dont-email.me> <vviv75$222r6$1@dont-email.me> <vvj1fp$22a62$1@dont-email.me> <vvj2j6$23gk7$1@dont-email.me> <as9TP.251456$lZjd.93653@fx05.ams4> <87msbmeo3b.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <vvjcge$27753$2@dont-email.me> <vvjeqf$28555$1@dont-email.me> <vvjffg$28g5i$1@dont-email.me> <875xiaejzg.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <vvjgt1$28g5i$5@dont-email.me> <87jz6qczja.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <vvjotc$28g5i$12@dont-email.me> <vvnh9u$3hd96$1@raubtier-asyl.eternal-september.org> <vvno4e$3in62$2@dont-email.me> <5b14da4260c0b7e3235ce05f752c092fade4d70e.camel@gmail.com> <vvnsae$3in62$9@dont-email.me> <11cc09876004107c47467b9481f614f45f450f2c.camel@gmail.com> <vvnu9k$3k258$2@dont-email.me> <674a661e498281cca55b322cbd5905a1988a6171.camel@gmail.com> <vvnvut$3kher$3@dont-email.me> <088556c03067d8de7184bf88dd01cc6b8c99ba1b.camel@gmail.com> <vvo1ni$3l14p$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Date: Sat, 10 May 2025 20:09:50 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c665478d8699930ce63ac26f3a79e21a"; logging-data="3849100"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18uSYbB9Y0dYYcr8caZuV8v" User-Agent: Evolution 3.54.3 (3.54.3-1.fc41) Cancel-Lock: sha1:o8YQOH937/PjuV5BaZjz6+NRgOM= In-Reply-To: <vvo1ni$3l14p$1@dont-email.me> Bytes: 6584 On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 12:17 -0500, olcott wrote: > On 5/10/2025 12:01 PM, wij wrote: > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 11:47 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > On 5/10/2025 11:29 AM, wij wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 11:19 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > On 5/10/2025 11:06 AM, wij wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 10:45 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > > > On 5/10/2025 10:28 AM, wij wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 09:33 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 5/10/2025 7:37 AM, Bonita Montero wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Am 09.05.2025 um 04:22 schrieb olcott: > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > Look at their replies to this post. > > > > > > > > > > > Not a one of them will agree that > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > void DDD() > > > > > > > > > > > { > > > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 HHH(DDD); > > > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 return; // final= halt state > > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > When 1 or more instructions of DDD are correctly > > > > > > > > > > > simulated by HHH then the correctly simulated DDD can= not > > > > > > > > > > > possibly reach its "return" instruction (final halt s= tate). > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > They have consistently disagreed with this > > > > > > > > > > > simple point for three years. > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > I guess that not even a professor of theoretical comput= er > > > > > > > > > > science would spend years working on so few lines of co= de. > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > I created a whole x86utm operating system. > > > > > > > > > It correctly determines that the halting problem's > > > > > > > > > otherwise "impossible" input is actually non halting. > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > int DD() > > > > > > > > > { > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 int Halt_Status =3D = HHH(DD); > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if (Halt_Status) > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 HERE: go= to HERE; > > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 return Halt_Status; > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > Nope. > > > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0From I know HHH(DD) decides whether= the input DD is "impossible" input or not. > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > DD has the standard form of the "impossible" input. > > > > > > > HHH merely rejects it as non-halting. > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > You said 'merely' rejects it as non-halting. > > > > > > So, POOH do not answer the input of any other function? > > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > > The input that has baffled computer scientists for 90 > > > > > years is merely correctly determined to be non-halting > > > > > when the behavior of this input is measured by HHH > > > > > emulating this input according to the rules of the x86 > > > > > language. > > > > >=20 > > > > > The same thing applies to the Linz proof yet cannot > > > > > be understood until after HHH(DDD) and HHH(DD) are > > > > > fully understood. > > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > HHH(DDD) (whatever) at most says DDD is a pathological/midtaken inp= ut. > > > > Others of what you say are your imagine and wishes, so far so true. > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > DDD emulated by HHH accor not the 'HHH' that makes the final decision (otherwise, it will be an infinite recursive call which you agreed) > > > ding to the rules of > > > the x86 language specifies recursive emulation > > > that cannot possibly reach the final halt state > > > of DDD. > > >=20 > >=20 > > I have no problem with that. And, you said HHH merely rejects it as non= -halting. > > You had denied HHH can decide the halting property of any input, except= DDD/DD/D.. > >=20 >=20 > As long as HHH correctly determines the halt status > of a single input that has no inputs then HHH is > a correct termination analyzer for that input. Go it, that is a stronger statement that HHH ONLY decides DD.=20 I have no problem with that, but be noticed that the HHH inside DD is not the 'HHH' that makes the final decision (otherwise, the 'HHH'=20 will be an infinite recursive which cannot make any decision, which=C2=A0 you had agreed)