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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: 197 page execution trace of DDD correctly simulated by HHH
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 21:32:18 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <c6747d2097a1946c7ebbe140882831375219deea@i2pn2.org>
References: <v4vrfg$2793f$1@dont-email.me> <v5mklg$3cibm$7@dont-email.me>
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On 7/2/24 9:28 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/2/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 7/2/24 7:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 7/2/24 6:58 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 7/2/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/2/24 8:39 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 6:30 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 11:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 10:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 11:14 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 9:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 10:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 9:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 9:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 7:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 8:59 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 3:23 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 30.jun.2024 om 19:20 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3               ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It cannot possibly return, because HHH aborts itself 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one cycle too early, showing that the emulation is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect. If that is over your head, try to learn how 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x86 instructions work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3               ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by HHH which calls an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process until aborted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CAN'T BE.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A "Correct Emulation" is one that produces the same 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> result as the program at the input.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which can only possibly occur be disregarding the semantics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the x86 language. Liars would do that ignoramuses 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that. Everyone with the equivalent of a BSCS would know that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what I said is true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you say that? That is EXACTLY the definition of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Correct Emulation. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WELL INDOCTRINATED FALSE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT TRUTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WELL INDOCTRINATED FALSE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT TRUTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WELL INDOCTRINATED FALSE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT TRUTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And denying definitions is just lying.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It may seem that way when you don't bother to pay
>>>>>>>>>>> attention that this definition is contradicted
>>>>>>>>>>> by verified facts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> WHAT "Verified facts".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> THe fact that DDD will halt since your HHH(DDD) retuns?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Indoctrination will cause this. The only cure is
>>>>>>>>>>> correct reasoning by assuming that everything that
>>>>>>>>>>> anyone ever told you about anything is possibly
>>>>>>>>>>> false until conclusively proven otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, but failure to follow the defined rules gets you kick 
>>>>>>>>>> out of the club.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If everyone always did this then Nazi propaganda
>>>>>>>>>>> could not possibly have any chance of success.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But THEY Lied, and to could be shown so,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just like your statements.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when HHH emulates the machine language of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Loop, Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> abort these emulations
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that itself can terminate normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> SO THESE THREE INPUTS DO NOT FREAKING HALT
>>>>>>>>>>>>> SO THESE THREE INPUTS DO NOT FREAKING HALT
>>>>>>>>>>>>> SO THESE THREE INPUTS DO NOT FREAKING HALT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No, DDD does halt if HHH is a decider and HHH(DDD) returns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is the same nutty bullshit as Gödel's 1931 incompleteness
>>>>>>>>>>> theorem. If there are no truth preserving operations in PA to
>>>>>>>>>>> either G or ~G then G has no truthmaker in PA making G not a
>>>>>>>>>>> truth-bearer in PA.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But there ARE a set of truth preserving operations in PA to 
>>>>>>>>>> show G, it is just that it takes an infinite number of them, 
>>>>>>>>>> so they don't constitute a proof.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Diagonalization conclusively proves otherwise and you know it.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe the issue is that you are fundamentally a liar.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I call your bluff, show your "cards" or FOLD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is not the way it works, you made a false claim and I
>>>>>>> call your bluff on this false claim. You must provide a linked
>>>>>>> source that agrees.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course that is the way it works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You claim you can show something, and I ask you to show it.
>>>>>>
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