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From: joes <noreply@example.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Sufficient knowledge of C proves that DD specifies
 non-terminating behavior to HHH
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 15:23:14 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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Am Mon, 10 Feb 2025 15:38:37 -0600 schrieb olcott:
> On 2/10/2025 2:48 PM, joes wrote:
>> Am Mon, 10 Feb 2025 08:46:21 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 2/10/2025 6:52 AM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Mon, 10 Feb 2025 06:02:48 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 2/10/2025 5:16 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Sun, 09 Feb 2025 13:54:39 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 1:33 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 20:04 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 12:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 18:00 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 10:50 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 16:18 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 2:13 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 07:10 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 15:47 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:57 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 06:53 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 7:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 8:12 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 5:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 11:26 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 6:20 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 10:02 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 8:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 5:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 1:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 1:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 10:52 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2025 um 16:11 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/5/2025 1:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2025 um 04:38 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which proves that HHH fails to make a correct decision
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about DD's halting behaviour. All other methods (direct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> execution,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation by a world class simulator, etc.) show that DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts. But HHH fails to see it. Everyone with sufficient
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of programming sees that HHH is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly programmed when it aborts one cycle before the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation would end normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The execution trace only shows that HHH is unable to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complete its simulation, because HHH is unable to simulate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It turns out that Olcott does not even understand this simple
>>>>>>>>>>>> proof that HHH produces false negatives. HHH is unable to
>>>>>>>>>>>> simulate itself up to the normal termination.
>>>>>>>>>> So, in other words, Olcott denies verified facts.
>>>>>>>>>> HHH generates false negatives, as is verified in
>>>>>>>>>>            int main() {
>>>>>>>>>>              return HHH(main);
>>>>>>>>>>            }
>>>>>>>>>> but he denies it.
>>>>>>>>>> He lacks the ability to accept simple verified facts, which he
>>>>>>>>>> tries to hide with a lot of irrelevant words.
>>>>>>>>> It is a verified fact that main cannot possibly be correctly
>>>>>>>>> simulated by HHH until its normal termination.
>>>>>>>> Indeed, which proves that HHH is unable to simulate itself
>>>>>>>> correctly.
>>>>>>> If this was true then you could point out exactly where HHH is
>>>>>>> incorrect.
>>>>>> HHH is supposed to be a decider, i.e. halt and return the correct
>>>>>> value.
>>>>> The directly executed HHH(DD) always halts and returns a correct
>>>>> value as soon as it correctly determines that its input cannot
>>>>> possibly terminate normally.
>>>> We were talking about HHH(HHH). If the outer HHH halts according to
>>>> spec, so does the inner, because it is the same. Therefore it can’t
>>>> report „non-halting” and be correct. If the inner HHH doesn’t halt,
>>>> it is not a decider.
>> RSVP
Hello?

>>>>>>> Here is the code point out the (nonexistent) error:
>>>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c#L502
>>>> Look at it.
>>> That is not an error.
>>> It is a verified fact that DD correctly simulated by HHH cannot
>>> possibly terminate normally. The line you referred to does not change
>>> that verified fact.
>> You didn’t look at it.
> I did look at it and was pleased that you noticed the significance of
> this line-of-code. None-the-less it does not and cannot possibly alter
> the truism that DD simulated by HHH cannot possibly terminate normally.
The significance of that line is that it changes the halting behaviour
of HHH.

-- 
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.