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From: Catrike Rider <soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Patching TPU innertube
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2025 17:34:18 -0500
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On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 16:27:54 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 1/2/2025 1:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 1/2/2025 10:35 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, scarcity affects price. A Mickey Mantle baseball card has no 
>>> higher intrinsic value than any other baseball card. That really 
>>> doesn't affect my points above.
>>>
>>> Unlike Mickey Mantle cards, the purported valuable characteristic of 
>>> Strads is not rarity (there are hundreds of them); it's sound quality. 
>>> The purported valuable characteristic of very expensive wines is not 
>>> rarity (there are probably millions of such bottles); it's flavor.
>>>
>>> Those who disagree with me should give us links to a few studies where 
>>> observers in blind comparison tests consistently said "Ah! THAT one is 
>>> the Strad!" I've been reading about this issue for decades, and I've 
>>> never heard of such results.
>>>
>>> And Andrew, I'm curious about your thoughts on the "feel" of closely 
>>> comparable bike frames, or closely similar tires. Not tubulars vs. 
>>> clinchers, or road slicks vs. knobbies. Say, parallel models of 
>>> Continental vs. Michelin.
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> I'm not so sure about all that.
>> 
>> For example, the #2 currently most expensive French vintage is the 1907 
>> Heidsieck & Co. Monopole Diamant Bleu, going for about $275000 per 
>> bottle. It does have an unique history and I choose this example because 
>> extant quantity is well known:
>> 
>> "The above bottle was part of the cargo of the Swedish schooner 
>> Jönköping which was sunk of the coast of Finland in 1916 by a German U- 
>> boat.
>> 
>> In 1997 the wreck was located and was salvaged. Of the original cargo of 
>> 4400 bottles of 1907 Heidsieck, Goüt Américain, some 2000 bottles were 
>> recovered by the salvage crew. Some bottles were tasted and the 
>> champagne was found to be in excellent condition, having withstood the 
>> pressure and been preserved in the dark, ice-cold water
>> 1 bottle per lot"
>> 
>> https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5150758
>> 
>> 2000 bottles, all in, is not 'millions'.  Highly desirable ($$$) but not 
>> recovered from shipwrecks French vintages were not produced by the 
>> millions, not even close.
>> 
>> Although this is an oddity in some regards...
>
>:-)  THAT'S an understatement!
>
>> ... it does amply reflect price 
>> relationship to scarcity which, as with baseball cards or Ferraris, is 
>> well established.
>
>Yes, as I said when I referenced Mickey Mantle cards. But that has 
>nothing to do with the fact that violins are available from ~$100 to 
>many millions of dollars. Scarcity doubtlessly affects the price of 
>Strads, but it can't affect the choices between a $300 fiddle and a 
>$2,000 fiddle, since both are available right now.
>https://www.sharmusic.com/collections/best-seller-product?sort_by=price-descending
>The expectation is the $2000 one will sound better - and I expect it 
>might. But I think violins get into the same "diminishing returns" 
>situation as bikes. I'm skeptical that many can tell, in a blind test, 
>whether a $20,000 fiddle sounds better than a $30,000 one. And in high 
>end road bikes of similar construction and componentry, I think the 
>situation is much the same.
>
>> Regarding bicycles, evaluation of handling among quality examples is 
>> highly individual.  (for 'among quality examples', almost all road 
>> riders will take any year Cinelli Supercorse over even the best Murray 
>> Ohio.) 
>
>Please remember, I've tried to limit discussion to devices that were at 
>least roughly similar. Murrays were never anything like Cinellis.
>
>> Each rider has not only different muscular, skeletal, proportion 
>> differences but also different riding position and weight distribution 
>> (all within a finite range but not exactly alike) and each rider also 
>> has preconcieved criteria. For example, one man's snappy is another's 
>> twitchy, stable to one rider is sluggish to another, etc.
>> 
>> Attempts to quantify that will fail.
>> 
>> Oh by the way. the absolutely best riding frame I ever owned was a 1976 
>> Pogliaghi Italcorse 56cm. (pretty, too). Never should have sold it. 
>> Other riders may find that model wonderful but many others merely call 
>> them acceptable.
>
>Hmm. So there wouldn't be near-universal agreement that it was better 
>than the Pogliaghi that was next down in the price range?  ;-)

So, apparently, some people make their choices based on their own
criteria, while others, like you, buy onto the group thinkers'
selections.