Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: energy in UK
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 15:46:40 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <d0130kltvliopjp6djtr0rm71js4r7qmd7@4ax.com>
References: <vtfhp7$25gv3$1@dont-email.me> <vtipp3$13511$1@dont-email.me> <vtka2s$2g8en$3@dont-email.me> <vtme4n$f4pp$1@dont-email.me> <vtmmh7$mjlu$1@dont-email.me> <vtnvoa$1vdsp$1@dont-email.me> <vtpc6n$35tke$1@dont-email.me> <vtqgc6$b177$1@dont-email.me> <vtqkca$b9gt$2@dont-email.me> <1raxpc1.wxxc7n63qcuuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> <vtqpua$i36f$1@dont-email.me> <1raxxub.cmm17n1cvp7lsN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> <vtrmk6$1b36q$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 00:46:42 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="d869dde575d103f05455d06dd0a91392";
	logging-data="1711712"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/VFDDf1EtX2iPRSSebd5zC"
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
Cancel-Lock: sha1:bhQdxfEVLoXthSFGNyGhRI4xvng=
Bytes: 3695

On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 12:59:58 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

>On 4/17/2025 7:38 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 4/17/2025 4:36 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>> Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>> I've heard rumors that some can also be used to disconnect power
>>>>> (for non-payment) but think that would be hard in the volume
>>>>> typically set aside for the meter (?)
>>>>
>>>> In the UK, that appeared to be the main reason the electricity compaines
>>>> rushed to install them; anyone who didn't pay or disputed their bill
>>>> could be threatened with being cut off without any necessity to gain
>>>> access to the premises.  Rather late in the day, this was made illegal
>>>> and the drive to fit 'smart' meters suddenly vanished.
>>>
>>> What are they using to disconnect the (typical) two 100A legs?
>> 
>> Most UK domestic premises are on single-phase 240v, with the neutral
>> earthed at the sub-station.  This means there is only one leg to
>> disconnect, so a latching relay with one set of 100A contacts is
>> sufficient.  (I remember seeing a video of 'Big Clive" dismantling one -
>> it may still be on YouTube somewhere.)
>
>I suspect even a simple contactor would be a challenge to cram in the
>bubble alongside the electronics.
>
>>> Here, there is value in having solid state metering.  It allows
>>> different monitoring schemes to be implemented without requiring a
>>> completely different mechanical metering system.  Eliminates
>>> the meter reader.  Provides dynamic load monitoring at the customer
>>> level.  Remote fault detection.  etc.
>> 
>> Most of which benefits the supplier, not the consumer.
>
>Of course!  Our electronic water meters include the ability to detect
>likely leaks (i.e., if water runs continuously then it is likely a sign
>of a leaking toilet fixture, etc.).
>
>But, this isn't used to alert the homeowner to a reparable problem.
>Rather, you get a "big bill" and start looking to see "Why?"

Our water supply at the cabin in Truckee has a shutoff valve. It had a
slow leak, and the local utility emailed me, with flow-vs-time graphs.

The smart meters are fairly recent. The water used to be unmetered.