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From: Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Making your mind up
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2024 17:42:44 +0100
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On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 16:50:12 -0700, Mark Isaak
<specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:

>On 4/26/24 4:27 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:32:27 -0700, the following appeared
>> in talk.origins, posted by Mark Isaak
>> <specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net>:
>> [...]
>>>
>>> I get the feeling that predetermination means, to you, that if I am
>>> predetermined to choose to buy this house (say), then no matter what I
>>> think, or even if I don't think at all, I will end up deciding to buy
>>> that house. I could move to Tibet, scramble my brain with acid, and
>>> spend all my conscious time playing Candy Crush, and still, in a day or
>>> two, the though will come to me, "I need to buy that house."
>>>
>>> That's not how predeterminism works. In a predetermined world, I find
>>> myself in need or want of a house, contact a realtor who shows me
>>> available listings; I visit those houses which are in good price range
>>> and neighborhoods; probably I am influenced by external factors such as
>>> the amount of traffic I had to fight through to get there or how hungry
>>> I am at the time. The good and bad points of the different houses being
>>> fed into my mind, I eliminate some obvious non-candidates, and let my
>>> gut guide me to the best of the remaining.
>>>
>>> That is predetermination at work.  Note that it appears, to all
>>> observers, exactly the same as non-predetermination. That's why the Free
>>> Will issue has never been resolved.
>>>
>> So, if I'm understanding that correctly, there is no
>> difference between determinism and non-determinism (or if
>> you prefer, determination and non-determination), and
>> therefore "free will" is a bugaboo which is not accepted
>> although its implications are?
>
>No detectable difference between the two. 

Perhaps you should contact all those philosophers who spend so much
time debating the difference and tell them they are wasting their
time.

>And I should have added "free 
>will" is also wrapped up in religious, personal angst, and equivocation 
>issues, which also contribute to making it a bugaboo.