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From: b.schafer@ed.ac.uk (Burkhard)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: The Golden Ratio
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 15:08:24 +0000
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erik simpson wrote:

> On 3/14/24 3:18 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Burkhard <b.schafer@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does this occur by accident?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or by design?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mathematics doesn't occur.
>>>>>> It is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If it didn't occur then it is, and always was. But was it so before the
>>>>> beginning of the universe? or maybe the universe didn't begin, because
>>>>> time and space are not fundamental properties of nature.
>>>
>>>> The universe, whatever it is, or was, or may be
>>>> is irrelevant for mathematics,
>>>
>>>> Jan
>>>
>>> a) yes, I'm back-ish - blame Lawyer Dagget, who put temptation in my path,
>>> and directed me to an interface that I can use without going through the
>>> hassle of signing up with yet another server :o) Though I'm likely to keep
>>> a lower profile than in the past due to work
>> 
>> Very good. Very good indeed. Just curious:
>> Is your new toy capable of wrapping lines to a reasonable length?

Tbh, I don't remember how I did it, first post and all. It has some features that look better than Google, but the display needs some getting used to. Let's see how this one works, I just keep on typing and see how it will be displayed after posting. 

>> 
>>> b) While I'd agree personally, there have been some interesting ideas by
>>> reasonably serious people who've argued that there is a closer connection
>>> than one might think. Most high-profile arguably Eugene Wigner and his
>>> famous paper "The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural
>>> Sciences" from 1960. Essentially a mathematics version of the "no miracle"
>>> argument for scientific realism.
>> 
>> Yes, I know, but this is hardly news.
>> Plato was already inspired by the unreasonable effectiveness of
>> mathematics. (as he knew it)
>> 
>> As for Wigner,
>> I guess he would feel like committing intellectual suicide
>> when seeing the present state of Math and Phys.
>> Could he really bring himself to believe
>> that "uggly theories are good!"?
>> Or that Einstein with his ideas of natural beauty had it all wrong?
>> 
>> He might agree that the state of math and string theory is demonstation
>> of the incredible uselessness of mathematics on a truly incredible
>> scale. (worse than ever seen before)
>> 
>> We now have 10^500 mathematical theories and universes,
>> give or take a few, and not a single prediction.
>> The argumnt from design can only be beaten down
>> with natural selection of universes and anthropic principles.
>> 
>> Is it possible to do worse? I guess that not even Dr Pangloss
>> can comfort us with some good words about it,
>> 
>> Jan
>>   
>   With 10^500 universes, what could go wrong?  No matter what craziness 
> we could propose, there'd be a universe where it worked.  Or my favorite 
> Pauliism:  that's not even wrong!