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From: bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor)
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: Europa and energy transfer
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2024 01:24:33 +0000
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On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 0:24:59 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote:

> bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:27:05 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>
>>> Bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 0:27:40 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 22:05:55 +0000, x wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/29/24 21:53, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>> NASA has a mission to the Jovian system, to study Europa. That moon is
>>>>>>>> interesting because it appears to have liquid water under an icy
>>>>>>>> surface. The heat need to keep the water liquid comes from the
>>>>>>>> stretching and compression Europa experiences during its orbit around
>>>>>>>> Jupiter, the orbit not been exactly circular.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So much, so simple.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some thought made me realise that although the tidal forces on Europa
>>>>>>>> mean that it is not exactly spherical, its two bulges cannot remain
>>>>>>>> perfectly aligned with Jupiter, because Europa's angular velocity
>>>>>>>> relative to Jupiter is higher at periapsis than at apoapsis. The result
>>>>>>>> is that the nearer bulge is sometimes ahead, and sometimes behind,
>>>>>>>> relative to Europa's orbital motion, resulting in a net force backwards
>>>>>>>> along the orbit, or forward along the orbit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Again, certainly stuff that's already well known.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as I can see, the energy that is being dissipated as heat inside
>>>>>>>> Europa has to come from changes to Europa's orbit. Further, if Europa
>>>>>>>> were either perfectly rigid, or perfectly elastic, there would be no
>>>>>>>> energy transfer, and consequently no change to the orbit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would make no difference if Jupiter itself were perfectly rigid, so
>>>>>>>> the transfer cannot involve tides on Jupiter generated by Europa.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So the existence of the orbital energy transfer depends on Europa being
>>>>>>>> neither perfectly rigid nor perfectly elastic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What escapes me is the mechanism.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am thinking that the standard model for Earth is that supposedly
>>>>>>> in the 1800s Lord Kelvin did some calculations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At that time they had thought the universe was only full of stars.
>>>>>
>>>>> Utter nonsense yet again, crackpot.
>>>>>
>>>>> By 1600 astronmers were well aware of different types of celestial
>>>>> bodies and beginning to measure distances to such.
>>>>
>>>> Did they have a clue about galaxies.
>>>
>>> "They" had a clue as early as 450 BCE crackpot.
>>
>> No, fool.
>> They thought the stars were the lights from Heaven.
>
> No, not everyone thought that crackpot.

Who in Europe did not before Copernicus?
>
>>>
>>> The first attempts at measuring distant objects where made around 1000
>>> CE crackpot.
>>>
>>> The invention of the telescope in 1610 rather clinched the deal
>>> crackpot.
>>
>> Penisnino, all they found then that crystal spheres MAY NOT exist and
>> the Earth MIGHT go around the Sun.
>
> Utterly wrong crackpot.
>
> <snip remaing insane babble unread>