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From: Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: Europa and energy transfer
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2024 08:01:04 -0700
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bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 1:24:33 +0000, Bertietaylor wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 0:24:59 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>
>>> bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:27:05 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 0:27:40 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 22:05:55 +0000, x wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10/29/24 21:53, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> NASA has a mission to the Jovian system, to study Europa. That moon is
>>>>>>>>>> interesting because it appears to have liquid water under an icy
>>>>>>>>>> surface. The heat need to keep the water liquid comes from the
>>>>>>>>>> stretching and compression Europa experiences during its orbit around
>>>>>>>>>> Jupiter, the orbit not been exactly circular.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So much, so simple.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Some thought made me realise that although the tidal forces on Europa
>>>>>>>>>> mean that it is not exactly spherical, its two bulges cannot remain
>>>>>>>>>> perfectly aligned with Jupiter, because Europa's angular velocity
>>>>>>>>>> relative to Jupiter is higher at periapsis than at apoapsis. The result
>>>>>>>>>> is that the nearer bulge is sometimes ahead, and sometimes behind,
>>>>>>>>>> relative to Europa's orbital motion, resulting in a net force backwards
>>>>>>>>>> along the orbit, or forward along the orbit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Again, certainly stuff that's already well known.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As far as I can see, the energy that is being dissipated as heat inside
>>>>>>>>>> Europa has to come from changes to Europa's orbit. Further, if Europa
>>>>>>>>>> were either perfectly rigid, or perfectly elastic, there would be no
>>>>>>>>>> energy transfer, and consequently no change to the orbit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It would make no difference if Jupiter itself were perfectly rigid, so
>>>>>>>>>> the transfer cannot involve tides on Jupiter generated by Europa.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So the existence of the orbital energy transfer depends on Europa being
>>>>>>>>>> neither perfectly rigid nor perfectly elastic.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What escapes me is the mechanism.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am thinking that the standard model for Earth is that supposedly
>>>>>>>>> in the 1800s Lord Kelvin did some calculations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At that time they had thought the universe was only full of stars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Utter nonsense yet again, crackpot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By 1600 astronmers were well aware of different types of celestial
>>>>>>> bodies and beginning to measure distances to such.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did they have a clue about galaxies.
>>>>>
>>>>> "They" had a clue as early as 450 BCE crackpot.
>>>>
>>>> No, fool.
>>>> They thought the stars were the lights from Heaven.
>>>
>>> No, not everyone thought that crackpot.
>>
>> Who in Europe did not before Copernicus?
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The first attempts at measuring distant objects where made around 1000
>>>>> CE crackpot.
>>>>>
>>>>> The invention of the telescope in 1610 rather clinched the deal
>>>>> crackpot.
>>>>
>>>> Penisnino, all they found then that crystal spheres MAY NOT exist and
>>>> the Earth MIGHT go around the Sun.
>>>
>>> Utterly wrong crackpot.
> 
> Ignorant fool the Penisnino. Wants to change the past

No, crackpot, you have no clue about science, modern or historical.