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Path: ...!news.misty.com!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> Newsgroups: sci.logic Subject: Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 14:10:26 -0400 Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org) Message-ID: <e452294ec866e3297f9bfec55eff17db4a347a25@i2pn2.org> References: <v86olp$5km4$1@dont-email.me> <662de0ccc3dc5a5f0be0918d340aa3314d51a348@i2pn2.org> <v9oj4r$1i745$8@dont-email.me> <02642e518edd3aa9152cd47e4e527f21ee53a0e8@i2pn2.org> <v9okho$1i745$10@dont-email.me> <60c0214582c7f97e49ef6f8853bff95569774f97@i2pn2.org> <v9p7im$1p6bp$4@dont-email.me> <d67278caa0b8782725e806b61adf892028f2bf89@i2pn2.org> <v9qd2p$1tedb$10@dont-email.me> <4d8c7b1c69915ebbe108d7f4e29cf6172eac7759@i2pn2.org> <v9qel5$1tedb$13@dont-email.me> <43690773dba43c5d93d11635af0a26532e5be390@i2pn2.org> <v9qgn7$1tedb$15@dont-email.me> <6272b80d0aeaca324ac8624dce71945edeb59092@i2pn2.org> <v9qjg5$1tedb$17@dont-email.me> <2e642af254f6140ce8711da64f31d4fd8467d58b@i2pn2.org> <v9qkeb$1tedb$19@dont-email.me> <f883e0312dcbce8663eaa445348e225687d83959@i2pn2.org> <v9qm86$1tedb$22@dont-email.me> <a2c1ed800e02c5e922df63241206c00d855680d5@i2pn2.org> <v9qncv$1tedb$25@dont-email.me> <2d7efb21a7466aa56ed7be937da998852f6882af@i2pn2.org> <v9qon8$1tedb$27@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2024 18:10:26 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="2897735"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="diqKR1lalukngNWEqoq9/uFtbkm5U+w3w6FQ0yesrXg"; User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <v9qon8$1tedb$27@dont-email.me> Bytes: 11686 Lines: 220 On 8/17/24 2:04 PM, olcott wrote: > On 8/17/2024 12:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 8/17/24 1:41 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 8/17/2024 12:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> On 8/17/24 1:22 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 8/17/2024 12:13 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>> On 8/17/24 12:51 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 8/17/2024 11:46 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>> On 8/17/24 12:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 8/17/2024 11:28 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/24 11:47 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/2024 10:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/24 11:12 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/2024 9:53 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/24 10:45 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/2024 9:40 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/24 12:05 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 5:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 6:40 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 5:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 6:16 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 5:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 4:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 4:39 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 2:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 2:11 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 11:32 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 7:02 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This abolishes the notion of undecidability* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As with all math and logic we have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressions of language >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are true on the basis of their meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this same language. Unless expression x >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has a connection >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (through a sequence of true preserving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operations) in system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> F to its semantic meanings expressed in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language L of F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x is simply untrue in F. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But you clearly don't understand the meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of "undecidability" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not at all. I am doing the same sort thing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that ZFC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did to conquer Russell's Paradox. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to do that, you need to start at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basics are totally reformulate logic. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ZFC didn't need to do that. All they had to do is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> redefine the notion of a set so that it was no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> longer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incoherent. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess you haven't read the papers of Zermelo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Fraenkel. They created a new definition of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what a set was, and then showed what that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implies, since by changing the definitions, all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the old work of set theory has to be thrown out, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then we see what can be established. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None of this is changing any more rules. All >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of these are the effects of the change of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition of a set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they defined not only what WAS a set, but what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you could do as basic operations ON a set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Axiom of extensibility: the definition of sets >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being equal, that ZFC is built on first-order logic. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Axion of regularity/Foundation: This is the rule >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that a set can not be a member of itself, and that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we can count the members of a set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This one is the key that conquered Russell's Paradox. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If anything else changed it changed on the basis of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or was not required to defeat RP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but they couldn't just "add" it to set theory, they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed to define the full set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you problem is you just don't understand how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> formal logic works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think at a higher level of abstraction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you don't, unless you mean by that not bothering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make sure the details work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't do fundamental logic in the abstract. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is just called fluff and bluster. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All that they did is just like I said they redefined >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what a set is. You provided a whole bunch of details of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how they redefined a set as a rebuttal to my statement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saying that all they did is redefine a set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Showing the sort of thing YOU need to do to redefine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I said that ZFC redefined the notion of a set to get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of RP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You show the steps of how ZFC redefined a set as your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuttal. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you said that "ALL THEY DID" was that, and that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just a LIE. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They developed a full formal system. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They did nothing besides change the definition of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a set and the result of this was a new formal system. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess you consider all the papers they wrote describing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the effects of their definitions "nothing" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Not at all and you know this. >>>>>>>>>>>>> One change had many effects yet was still one change. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But would mean nothing without showing the affects of that >>>>>>>>>>>> change. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yet again with your imprecise use of words. >>>>>>>>>>> When any tiniest portion of the meaning of an expression >>>>>>>>>>> has been defined this teeny tiny piece of the definition >>>>>>>>>>> makes this expression not pure random gibberish. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Meaningless does not mean has less meaning, it is >>>>>>>>>>> an idiom for having zero meaning. >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/meaningless >>>>>>>>>>> ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========