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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2024 21:12:23 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 7/16/24 2:27 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/16/2024 3:20 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-07-15 20:56:21 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 7/15/2024 3:51 PM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Mon, 15 Jul 2024 08:51:14 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 7/15/2024 3:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-07-15 03:41:24 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>> On 7/14/2024 9:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/14/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any input that must be aborted to prevent the non termination of
>>>>>>>>> simulating termination analyzer HHH necessarily specifies
>>>>>>>>> non-halting behavior or it would never need to be aborted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Excpet, as I have shown, it doesn't.
>>>>>>>> Your problem is you keep on ILEGALLY changing the input in your
>>>>>>>> argument because you have misdefined what the input is.
>>>>>>>> The input to HHH is ALL of the memory that it would be accessed 
>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>> correct simulation of DDD, which includes all the codd of HHH, and
>>>>>>>> thus, if you change HHH you get a different input.
>>>>>>>> If you want to try to claim the input is just the bytes of the
>>>>>>>> function DDD proper then you are just admitting that you are 
>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>> more than a lying idiot that doesn't understand the problem,
>>>>>>> Turing machines only operate on finite strings they do not 
>>>>>>> operate on
>>>>>>> other Turing machines *dumbo*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's right. But the finite string can be a description of a Turing
>>>>>> machine.
>>>>> No that is wrong. The finite string must encode a Turing machine.
>>>> Same difference.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not at all. The huge mistake of all these years is that
>>> people stupidly expected that HHH to report on the behavior
>>> of its own executing Turing machine.
>>
>> No, the error is that HHH report on its own behavour instead of the
>> behaviour specified by its inputs. Nobody expects that your programs
>> do anything interesting or useful.
>>
> 
> HHH computes the mapping from this finite string: 
> 558bec6863210000e853f4ffff83c4045dc3
> to non-halting behavior because this finite string
> calls HHH(DDD) in recursive simulation.
> 

Nope, because the finite string doesn't represent a program, and when 
you include the information that HHH adds to it, it becomes a Halting 
Program.

Maybe you can say HHH is a correcrt POOP decider, but you can't use the 
word halting to means something other than Halting withou t becoming a LIAR,