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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Analysis_of_Flibble=E2=80=99s_Latest=3A_Detecting_v?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?s=2E_Simulating_Infinite_Recursion_ZFC?=
Date: Sat, 24 May 2025 17:49:42 -0400
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On 5/24/25 11:27 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/24/2025 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2025-05-23 16:19:12 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 5/23/2025 2:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2025-05-23 05:25:30 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/22/2025 8:24 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/05/2025 06:41, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/05/2025 06:23, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>>>>>> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>>>>>>>>> On 22/05/2025 00:14, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/21/2025 6:11 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>>>> Turing proved that what you're asking is impossible.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is not what he proved.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then you'll be able to write a universal termination analyser 
>>>>>>>>> that can
>>>>>>>>> correctly report for any program and any input whether it 
>>>>>>>>> halts. Good
>>>>>>>>> luck with that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not necessarily.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course not. But I'm just reflecting. He seemed to think that 
>>>>>>> my inability to write the kind of program Turing envisaged (an 
>>>>>>> inability that I readily concede) is evidence for his argument. 
>>>>>>> Well, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even if olcott had refuted the proofs of the
>>>>>>>> insolvability of the Halting Problem -- or even if he had proved
>>>>>>>> that a universal halt decider is possible
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And we both know what we both think of that idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- that doesn't imply
>>>>>>>> that he or anyone else would be able to write one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've never been entirely clear on what olcott is claiming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nor I. Mike Terry seems to have a pretty good handle on it, but 
>>>>>>> no matter how clearly he explains it to me my eyes glaze over and 
>>>>>>> I start to snore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey, it's the way I tell 'em!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's what the tabloids might have said about it, if it had made 
>>>>>> the front pages when the story broke:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   COMPUTER BOFFIN IS TURING IN HIS GRAVE!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   An Internet crank claims to have refuted Linz HP proof by 
>>>>>> creating a
>>>>>>   Halt Decider that CORRECTLY decides its own "impossible input"!
>>>>>>   The computing world is underwhelmed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Better?  (Appologies for the headline, it's the best I could come 
>>>>>> up with.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>>
>>>> That is not a valid sentence: there is an subordinate clause and two
>>>> main clauses but nothing that combines the main clauses to an overall
>>>> meaning.
>>>
>>> Is is not supposed to be an English sentence nitwit.
>>
>> Yet another attempt of a straw man deception. I didn't say anything
>> about English. I only said that it is not a sentence.
>>
>>> It is a simplification of the Linz definition of Ĥ.
>>
>> A simplification that omits all meaning is not a useful simplification.
>> It does not define, it does not describe, it does not require, it does
>> not say anything at all.
>>
> 
> If you are too stupid to understand its meaning
> that is not my fault. I even specified its step
> by step meaning and you erased that part to make
> it easier to lie.
> 

A "simplification" that changes essential meaning is just a LIE.

Sorry, you are just proving your duplicity.