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From: Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: [Bell of Lost Souls] It's Canon: Baldur's Gate 3 Brings D&D To The Vatican
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 11:14:13 -0600
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On Wed, 20 Nov 2024 13:29:15 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote: 

>On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 15:23:25 -0500, Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>>Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> looked up from reading the
>>entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
>>say:
>>
>>>On 11/18/2024 5:31 PM, Jhulian Waldby wrote:
>>>> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>>> On 11/15/2024 12:37 PM, Zaghadka wrote:
>>>>>> Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>>>>>> Kyonshi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/15/2024 1:11 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/14/2024 10:55 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Kyonshi  <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
>>>>>>>>>> installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. 
>>>>>>>>>> Never
>>>>>>>>>> let anyone tell you who you are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
>>>>>>>>> long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
>>>>>>>>> when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser 
>>>>>>>>> extent
>>>>>>>>> the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
>>>>>>>> popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick 
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
>>>>>>> that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
>>>>>>> middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
>>>>>>> Vatican city are elder professionals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
>>>>>> is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e 
>>>>>> *Deities
>>>>>> & Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
>>>>>> So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.
>>>>>
>>>> I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate 
>>>> the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this in some Dungeon 
>>>> Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory.  Not one 
>>>> hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."
>>>> 
>>>> Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs. 
>>>> That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
>>>> 
>>>> Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.
>>>
>>>Something about some group of teenagers wandering around in the New York 
>>>subway tunnels comes to mind.
>>
>>That's Rona Jaffe's Mazes & Monsters.
>>https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084314/
>>
>>The Satanism thing was Jack Chick;
>>https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-comic-cartoonist-death
>>
>>A snippet:  "A lot of people hated Jack Chick. He wrote furious screeds
>>against Dungeons & Dragons, against Catholicism and against rock music;
>>he waged a long and ultimately unsuccessful war on Halloween. If you
>>were Jewish or Muslim or gay, Chick wanted you to be saved from the
>>fires of hell and wrote a comic to tell you so."
>>
>>A collection of his lunacy;
>>https://www.chick.com/products/category?type=tracts
>>
>>Specifically for D&D
>>https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=46&ue=d
>>
>>Xocyll
>
>
>I mean, it wasn't _only_ Jack Chick. The American 'Satanic Panic'
>thing was fairly wide-spread even before D&D; believers pointed to
>comic books, movies, rock'n'roll and all sorts of entertainment as
>malefic influences on the youth. D&D was a sort of easy target because
>one of its rulebooks featured a demonic idol on its cover. But of any
>one person could be pointed to as the driving force for the 'D&D is a
>tool of Satan", it's probably Patricia Pulling, nominal private
>investigator, author of "The Devil's Web" and founder of BADD
>('Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons', an anti-satanism campaign that
>specifically targeted tabletop RPGs).
>
>Chick was an end-times baptist nutjob who wrote a lot of corny and
>logically-inconsistent morality plays in the form of comic strips
>which reflected his very weird beliefs, of which 'Dark Dungeons' was
>only one of many. As far as I can tell, it came out in the mid 80s,
>some years after Pulling founded BADD and after the height of the
>Satanic Panic frenzy.
>
I played the DMG backward on a turntable. It created a shredded paper
golem that immediately said, "Hail! Satan!"

There is some credence to what was said.

-- 
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten