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From: George J. Dance@novabbs.com (George J. Dance)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: The Psycho-epistemolgy of MMP
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2025 08:42:10 +0000
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On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 17:31:42 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 16:57:53 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 5:55:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 2:28:41 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:58:37 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 13:45:51 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 4:07:04 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> moved from
>>>>>>> https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=254114&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#254114
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 0:20:56 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's Michael Pendragon, always the Peter Keating styled second hander.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Essentially we're in agreement; but I have to raise two non-essential
>>>>>>> points of disagreement. First, I would rather not refer to the subject
>>>>>>> as "Pendragon." The subject's real name is unknown; "Michael Pendragon"
>>>>>>> is just one of his socks, albeit the most prolific one. I would prefer
>>>>>>> to refer to him as "MMP" (which doesn't mean you have to, of course, if
>>>>>>> you disagree).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Second, I don't think that Peter Keating is the best 'type' to describe
>>>>>>> MMP in the novel. Both Keating and MMP are social metaphysicians - they
>>>>>>> think that reality is whatever people believe it is, the "consensus"
>>>>>>> view of reality. But so do half the novel. Where those two are different
>>>>>>> is that Keating is content to follow the consensus, while MMP believes
>>>>>>> he can actually control reality by controlling others' beliefs. That
>>>>>>> makes him more like two of Rand's other protagonists from that novel,
>>>>>>> Gail Wynand and Ellsworth Toohey. Which of those matches him best is
>>>>>>> still an open question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why does Michael Pendragon lie and misrepresent so much?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MMP has told us he was abused as a boy, and I think that fact is key.
>>>>>>> Lying is one tactic children usually try at some point to escape
>>>>>>> punishment, and an abused child has all the more reason to keep at it ad
>>>>>>> learn how to do it successfully. Since MMP comes across as clever (at
>>>>>>> least 120 IQ), it is also fair to think that he was able to learn to lie
>>>>>>> successfully. So it is fair to conclude that he did learn to lie
>>>>>>> successfully, and escape punishment, more than once.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While no one can blame a child in that position for lying, his doing so
>>>>>>> successfully would be giving him the wrong feedback, making him think
>>>>>>> that he actually was changing reality by changing his parents' beliefs -
>>>>>>> telling him that in fact reality was whatever one wanted it to be, and
>>>>>>> that he could be that one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More later, but I wanted to get these two points on record quickly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting, I'm starting to think both Harry Lime and Jim Senetto were
>>>>>> actually projecting in their critiques of "My Father's House."
>>>>>
>>>>> I can imagine that for the Lime sock (MMP). As far as his Chimp, though,
>>>>> I don't want to leap to that conclusion for him. Remember, he is the
>>>>> less intelligent of the two, and in consequence he just believes and
>>>>> says whatever MMP tells him to. That could be all he was doing in those
>>>>> threads as well.
>>>
>>>> It seems that Senetto took the lead in attempting to drive Stephan
>>>> Pickering from the newsgroup though, but that may have been fueled by
>>>> Senetto's obvious Antisemitism.
>>>
>>> Thanks for reminding me. It was actually MMP who did that by bringing
>>> NAMBLA to the group. That triggered Jim, just the way MFH triggered him
>>> after he was told that it was really about child molesting.
>>
>> Oh yes, the old Allen Ginsberg joined NAMBLA thing which then gave Jim
>> Senetto and excuse to vent his anti Semitic feelings against Stephan
>> Pickering.
>
> Again, go fuck yourself, you fat, drunken, lying, illiterate, unwashed
> redneck p,o,s.
>
> Jim never made any anti Semitic remarks to Pickles -- or to anyone else,
> myself included -- and unlike Pickles, I actually am Jewish (Pickles
> claimed that he self-converted, which any real Jew can tell you is not a
> real, or accepted, conversion.)

No, Stephan had a real conversion, under a rabbi, and got a Document.
You did not convert - you are not Jewish, but as you admit a pagan -
although you have a Document, too. (At least you say you do - I'd
suggest you send a copy to Will so he can have Dr Schwimmer verify it.)