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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant?
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 21:07:12 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <f6e8f5de9a1e61c7970a92145ce8c1f9087ba431@i2pn2.org>
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On 7/2/24 7:03 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/2/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 7/2/24 3:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2024 2:17 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 21:00 schreef olcott:
>>>>> On 7/2/2024 1:42 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 14:22 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 3:22 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 03:25 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>    Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>    HHH(Infinite_Loop);
>>>>>>>>>    HHH(Infinite_Recursion);
>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows
>>>>>>>>> that when HHH emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop,
>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must abort these emulations
>>>>>>>>> so that itself can terminate normally.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whether or not it *must* abort is not very relevant. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This <is> the problem that I am willing to discuss.
>>>>>>> I am unwilling to discuss any other problem.
>>>>>>> This does meet the Sipser approved criteria.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>>>>>>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>>>>>>>      stop running unless aborted then
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>>>>>>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>>>>>>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Repeating the same thing that has already been proved to be 
>>>>>> irrelevant does not bring the discussion any further.
>>>>>> Sipser is not relevant, because that is about a correct 
>>>>>> simulation. Your simulation is not correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you disagree with this you are either dishonest
>>>>> or clueless I no longer care which one.
>>>>>
>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>> [00002183] c3               ret
>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>
>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by HHH which calls an
>>>>> emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process until aborted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> HHH repeats the process twice and aborts too soon. 
>>>
>>> You are freaking thinking too damn narrow minded.
>>> DDD is correctly emulated by any HHH that can exist
>>> which calls this emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process
>>> until aborted (which may be never).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Only if your definiton of "Correct" includes things that are not correct.
>>
>> Your problem is you just assume things to exist that don't, because 
>> you don't understand what Truth actually means.
> 

So, where is that Diagonalization proof you said you had to show Godel 
wrong?

Or are you just admitting you LIED about that?

> void DDD()
> {
>    HHH(DDD);
> }
> 
> int main()
> {
>    HHH(DDD);
> }
> 
> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>      stop running unless aborted then
> 
>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
> 
> *Professor Sipser would agree that HHH/DDD meets the above criteria*
> 
Nope.

Your HHH that returns an answer does NOT "Correctly Simulate" its input 
by the definition of producing the exact results of executing the 
machine represented by it, nor does it correctly determine what such a 
simululation would do.

THis is clear, as DDD() Halts if HHH(DDD) returns an answer.

Therefore HHH can NOT POSSIBLY correct in determining that it does.

You are just showing that you have no idea what you are talking about, 
and just think LIES are appropriate logic.