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From: will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Ginsberg's Rorschach poetry
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 01:57:56 +0000
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 18:22:57 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 16:11:37 +0000, Will-Dockery wrote:
>
>>> Victor H. wrote:
>>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, June 1, 2022 at 9:27:52 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Allen Ginsberg's poem shows no pedophilia as far as I can tell.
>>>>
>>>> What you claim to see in the poem seems to be from your own imagination,
>> Pendragon.
>>>>
>>>> Says the
>>>>
>>>> No, says several legitimate sources, which day that "Please
>> Master" was written by Allen Ginsberg for Neal Cassady, a grown man.
>>>>
>>>> HTH and HAND.
>>>
>>> Did Pendragon ever admit he was wrong....?
>>
>>
>>
>> You know Pendragon never admits when he's wrong.
>
> It doesn't matter if the poem was written for Neal Cassady (a man
> roughly 1/3 Ginsberg's age)

Again, Neal Cassady and Allen Ginsberg were basically the same age, both
born in 1926.

> IIRC, the poem was a sexually explicit depiction of a homosexual Dom-Sub
> BDSM session, presented in a strikingly crude manner, and is not
> something I have any desire to reread.  I am not being prudish or
> anything; I just don't find the topic interesting.
>
> The "please, Master" exchanges between the Dom and Sub in the poem's
> monologue, are (IMHO intentionally) reminiscent of an apprentice (a boy
> aged 10-16) and a much older master craftsman in a given art or trade.
> This recasts the narrative, at least on one level, as a depiction of
> Man-Boy sex.
>
> --

No, the poems are established to be about Neal Cassady who was the same
age as Allen Ginsberg, both were born in 1926.

HTH and HAND.