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Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.quux.org!news.nk.ca!rocksolid2!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: mpsilvertone@yahoo.com (HarryLime) Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems Subject: Re: The Psycho-epistemolgy of MMP Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:42:32 +0000 Organization: novaBBS Message-ID: <fc18801dd6d55c621451efd88ad00cf7@www.novabbs.com> References: <agednQfwfc2I0AD6nZ2dnZfqn_cAAAAA@giganews.com> <RImcndwGP8Ji_AP6nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> <f4a098606950b1144e0f3ca245b509f2@www.novabbs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="3170050"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="9yNNWN6S3jCL2bQghupeZ7yt9QQF3aIiWb2guQimaIw"; User-Agent: Rocksolid Light X-Rslight-Posting-User: e04a750cbe04de725ce24a46bcc3953c76236e3b X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10$nPhRs8d.TXkLaM76qzXskOg4XlmaGUuzc0e1mNcEN5Prg0WzH.ify On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 16:28:08 +0000, W.Dockery wrote: > On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 18:03:43 +0000, MummyChunk wrote: > >>> Will-Dockery wrote: >> >>>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 4:07:04 +0000, George J. Dance wrote: >>>> >>>> moved from >>>> >> https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=254114&group=alt.arts.poe >> try.comments#254114 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 0:20:56 +0000, W.Dockery wrote: >>>> >>>> That's Michael Pendragon, always the Peter Keating styled second hander. >>>> >>>> Essentially we're in agreement; but I have to raise two non-essential >>>> points of disagreement. First, I would rather not refer to the subject >>>> as "Pendragon." The subject's real name is unknown; "Michael >> Pendragon" >>>> is just one of his socks, albeit the most prolific one. I would prefer >>>> to refer to him as "MMP" (which doesn't mean you have to, of >> course, if >>>> you disagree). >>>> >>>> Second, I don't think that Peter Keating is the best 'type' to describe >>>> MMP in the novel. Both Keating and MMP are social metaphysicians - they >>>> think that reality is whatever people believe it is, the >> "consensus" >>>> view of reality. But so do half the novel. Where those two are different >>>> is that Keating is content to follow the consensus, while MMP believes >>>> he can actually control reality by controlling others' beliefs. That >>>> makes him more like two of Rand's other protagonists from that novel, >>>> Gail Wynand and Ellsworth Toohey. Which of those matches him best is >>>> still an open question. >>>> >>>> Why does Michael Pendragon lie and misrepresent so much? >>>> >>>> MMP has told us he was abused as a boy, and I think that fact is key. >>>> Lying is one tactic children usually try at some point to escape >>>> punishment, and an abused child has all the more reason to keep at it ad >>>> learn how to do it successfully. Since MMP comes across as clever (at >>>> least 120 IQ), it is also fair to think that he was able to learn to lie >>>> successfully. So it is fair to conclude that he did learn to lie >>>> successfully, and escape punishment, more than once. >>>> >>>> While no one can blame a child in that position for lying, his doing so >>>> successfully would be giving him the wrong feedback, making him think >>>> that he actually was changing reality by changing his parents' beliefs - >>>> telling him that in fact reality was whatever one wanted it to be, and >>>> that he could be that one. >>>> >>>> More later, but I wanted to get these two points on record quickly. >>>> >>>> Here it is, lest we forget. >>>> >>>> Pendragon, the little green monkey, revealed. >>>> >>>> 😏 >>>> >>>> >>> He sure can trigger you, donkey. >> >> >> >> Not really, Rudy. >> >> 😏 >> >> >> No one should ever get triggered by someone on the internet. We are all >> stronger than that I think.... >> >> >> This is a response to the post seen at: >> http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=682126454#682126454 > > Again, agreed. Pretty much *everyone* can, and has triggered you, Donkey. PJR, Cujo, and Aratzio only had to mention Michael Cooke to send you into a frantic series of rants about how he stole your "Karma Bombs." One only has to clap their hands to send you into your Donkey dance. --