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From: joes <noreply@example.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Sufficient knowledge of C proves that DD specifies
 non-terminating behavior to HHH
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 09:16:00 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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Am Wed, 12 Feb 2025 22:18:32 -0600 schrieb olcott:
> On 2/11/2025 2:05 PM, joes wrote:
>> Am Tue, 11 Feb 2025 10:19:11 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 2/11/2025 9:23 AM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Mon, 10 Feb 2025 15:38:37 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 2/10/2025 2:48 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Mon, 10 Feb 2025 08:46:21 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 2/10/2025 6:52 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>> Am Mon, 10 Feb 2025 06:02:48 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/10/2025 5:16 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Am Sun, 09 Feb 2025 13:54:39 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 1:33 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 20:04 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 12:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 18:00 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 10:50 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 16:18 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 2:13 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 07:10 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 15:47 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:57 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 06:53 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 7:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 8:12 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 5:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 11:26 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 6:20 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 10:02 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 8:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 5:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 1:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 1:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 10:52 AM, Bonita Montero

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which proves that HHH fails to make a correct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision about DD's halting behaviour. All other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> methods (direct execution,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation by a world class simulator, etc.) show
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that DD halts. But HHH fails to see it. Everyone with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sufficient understanding of programming sees that HHH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not correctly programmed when it aborts one cycle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before the simulation would end normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The execution trace only shows that HHH is unable to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complete its simulation, because HHH is unable to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulate itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It turns out that Olcott does not even understand this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple proof that HHH produces false negatives. HHH is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unable to simulate itself up to the normal termination.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, in other words, Olcott denies verified facts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH generates false negatives, as is verified in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              int main() {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                return HHH(main);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but he denies it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He lacks the ability to accept simple verified facts, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he tries to hide with a lot of irrelevant words.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a verified fact that main cannot possibly be correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by HHH until its normal termination.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, which proves that HHH is unable to simulate itself
>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly.
>>>>>>>>>>> If this was true then you could point out exactly where HHH is
>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect.
>>>>>>>>>> HHH is supposed to be a decider, i.e. halt and return the
>>>>>>>>>> correct value.
>>>>>>>>> The directly executed HHH(DD) always halts and returns a correct
>>>>>>>>> value as soon as it correctly determines that its input cannot
>>>>>>>>> possibly terminate normally.
>>>>>>>> We were talking about HHH(HHH). If the outer HHH halts according
>>>>>>>> to spec, so does the inner, because it is the same. Therefore it
>>>>>>>> can’t report „non-halting” and be correct. If the inner HHH
>>>>>>>> doesn’t halt, it is not a decider.
>>> I am not going to ever talk about that.
>> Oh goody, you’re never getting anywhere if you reject corrections.
> I reject infinite deflection away from the point. The absolute
> single-mined focus point is that DD correctly simulated by HHH cannot
> possible terminate normally.
That IS the point. DD does nothing else than call HHH.

> Since there is a 5% chance that the treatment I will have next month
> will kill me and this treatment is my only good chance I will totally
> ignore anything that diverges from the point.
Ok, I will wait a month then.

-- 
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.