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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: New Bike Path
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2024 07:09:31 -0400
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On Thu, 18 Jul 2024 09:22:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Jul 2024 18:25:57 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 7/15/2024 11:57 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Basically, in town there is no way to build a safe bidirectional cycleway.
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I think there are rare exceptions, and I think "safe" is not a binary 
>>>> condition. But I certainly think most introduce serious hazards not 
>>>> present in normal roads.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Absolutely there is, plenty in london that work well, but they don?t cross
>>>>> drive in sort of places but certainly in London the two tend to be in very
>>>>> different locations!...
>>>>> Town Bidirectional cycleway.
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/8DeJ2xi7ZP2cbXsG9?g_st=ic
>>>>> 
>>>>> Some junctions are light controlled others don?t warrant it, it seems to
>>>>> work well, I only use it occasionally and often like I will on Sunday for a
>>>>> Cheese market being Chiswick.
>>>> 
>>>> Adding special traffic lights just for bikes, as in your photo, can 
>>>> help, but at a penalty of extra delays for both bikes and cars. I rode 
>>>> bike lanes with extra bike traffic lights in Stockholm, for example, and 
>>>> sometimes waited at our "special" red light while parallel cars had a 
>>>> green. I saw other cyclists who seemed more familiar with the area 
>>>> ignoring the red.
>>>> 
>>> Not special traffic lights it?s essentially the junction so just it?s own
>>> phase or rather with the pedestrians, being a high street, this is
>>> frequent, ie your not going to be doing 20+ mph like the Embankment its not
>>> that set up.
>>> 
>>>> And if there are very many driveways, the hazard we're discussing exists 
>>>> at each one. Turning your photo around shows this:
>>>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/AxRNjBuU3RadBnUM8 followed by several other 
>>>> junctions with streets or lots that would have been potential problems.
>>>> 
>>> it?s pragmatic so busy junctions are light controlled, others aren?t and
>>> equally side entrances aren?t but none of these are busy, 
>>> 
>>> cycle traffic volumes has massively increased, the few side entrances don?t
>>> seem to be a problem either anecdotally or in Transport for London?s data
>>> that there is, it?s fairly new.
>>> 
>>> Roger Merriman
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> I see those "terrible, dangerous" bidirectional sidepaths being built
>> all around here. The fact that a few timid bicyclists are afraid to
>> ride on them hasn't deterred the rest of us.
>> 
>
>Ones I see and use are by some margin better designed than the stuff Frank
>has managed to find, ie entry on off and generally managed junctions and so
>on.
>
>Every chance yours are closer to mine than his, as well he’s been selective
>as ever.
>
>Roger Merriman

I doubt that there is ever going to be a big movement to ban him from
riding on the streets and roads where he likes to ride, at least not
in the USA. If there is, I would definitely oppose it.

On the other hand, Krygowski seems hell-bent on coercing everyone, or
even forcing them through legislation, to be more like him. Now,
there's a truly repulsive thought, but fortunately, he's failing on
both fronts. 

I rather like making my own decisions about most things.