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From: john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information.
Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 10:19:46 -0700
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On Sat, 17 May 2025 02:46:26 +0200, "Carlos E. R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2025-05-15 17:54, john larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 May 2025 11:22:42 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, 14 May 2025 19:38:09 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2025-05-14 17:37, john larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 14 May 2025 21:10:06 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2025-05-14 19:19, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 13 May 2025 22:28:23 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2025-05-13 18:14, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 13/05/2025 11:48 pm, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 13 May 2025 12:57:47 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>>>>>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nukes are great, but not if you tear them down.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nukes are remarkably expensive, and depressingly inflexible. Radiation
>>>>>>>>> damage to the structure means that you do have to tear them down after a
>>>>>>>>> few decades of use, and the radioactive waste starts off very
>>>>>>>>> radioactive, and the longer-lived isotopes have to be managed for a few
>>>>>>>>> hundred thousand years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the investors building the stations do not consider the cost of
>>>>>>>> managing the waste for centuries. They leave that part to the
>>>>>>>> government. In Spain, we don't have any long term nuclear waste storage.
>>>>>>>> I think we rent storage in France, so the waste has to be transported
>>>>>>>> there. We have some storage at each station, a large water pool.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The best thing to do with used fuel rods is reprocess them into more
>>>>>>> fuel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Something that is expensive and not every country can do.
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple of very remote places in the world could do that. And we'd
>>>>> get lots of fun isotopes too. Can't leave hot rods in a zillion pools
>>>>> forever.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When that's not feasible, dig a deep hole and dump it in. Or drop
>>>>>>> barrels of junk into an ocean subduction zone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's simply wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's irrational to store nuclear waste locally. Nuke policy is mostly
>>>>>>> fear driven. And nukes are unpopular in some quarters by people who
>>>>>>> really don't want us to have affordable, safe energy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a very rational and studied fear of nuclear power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?  It's very safe when done carefully.
>>>>>
>>>>> The little modular reactors sound cool.
>>>>
>>>> Putting used nuclear fuel someplace deepish underground is important.
>>>> While a nuclear war would be very very bad, surface storage makes it
>>>> much, much worse.
>>>>
>>>> The Chernobyl disaster released about 3.5% of the core inventory of one
>>>> reactor out of four.(*)
>>>>
>>>> One Hiroshima-size bomb on top of a comparable large nuke plant could
>>>> release all the inventory in all four cores, which would be about
>>>> 4/0.035 ~ 114 times worse than Chernobyl.
>>>>
>>>> If the site included extensive spent-fuel pools, the total would be
>>>> correspondingly larger--maybe 500 Chernobyls, maybe more.  And that's
>>>> just one installation.
>>>>
>>>> Not a bad score for one small bomb--there are lots bigger ones. :(
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>>
>>>> (*)
>>>> <https://www.oecd-nea.org/jcms/pl_28292/chernobyl-chapter-ii-the-release-dispersion-deposition-and-behaviour-of-radionuclides>
>>>
>>> I'd be tempted to put hot waste in very heavy steel casks and drop
>>> them into the Mariana Trench:
>>>
>>> .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench>
>>>
>>> It's 11 Km deep, and is where the Pacific Plate is subducting under
>>> the Mariana plate, so those caskets are in for the long term.  Nor is
>>> retrieval all that easy, or a nuclear weapon of much consequence.  If
>>> it even works under such pressure.
>>>
>>> Joe
>> 
>> Yes. Waste can be mixed into concrete or vitrified and dumped tens of
>> thousands of feet into a trench. Only irrational fear prevents that.
>
>On the contrary, it is a very rational knowledge that prevents it.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yqnzw03oxlhqsecta7idt/Afraid.jpg?rlkey=rwrf5e1felkvjbqy8wrv2ah5t&raw=1