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Path: ...!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-3.nntp.ord.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2024 02:46:50 +0000 Subject: Re: vis-viva and vis-motrix Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity References: <Q3udnQ_BXvnebXX7nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> <66e96931$0$3271$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <Uj6dnY-qhbLyUHT7nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <7RycnbrrTfx70W37nZ2dnZfqnPYAAAAA@giganews.com> <79qcnSfIffhX_m37nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> <t72dnUjHGp9d8Wn7nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <66F478BF.7DAE@ix.netcom.com> <uWOdnegwverCXWn7nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> <66F59C62.58E2@ix.netcom.com> <aSidnQ0zvNRkW2j7nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com> <llpuokFgheaU9@mid.individual.net> <81WdnRHj5_sE5mX7nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> <lluqp8F93kcU1@mid.individual.net> <arWdnUygcaauaWf7nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> <lm1ka1Fln9eU3@mid.individual.net> <QZ6cnXcHOqHuBWH7nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> <wkCdnZvpP_V_nmL7nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com> From: Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2024 19:46:54 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <wkCdnZvpP_V_nmL7nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <hFCdndUKGf6HymL7nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com> Lines: 646 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Trace: sv3-s179Wov9gcZLJkvLFrVKtaOF/zF5BFnVi9Kg+YnkjUPx0fiX/DjxLDnFzf6nCk6QgvrzJKAoTAb6nY3!CHH2ljRRbfUJpf8TfqsDgijWRbe6X9ZVHgrVAPUZSd4kkM84KMdqFcU6tfF3DCBNtm68pV8lb2E= X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Bytes: 28403 On 10/03/2024 01:51 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > On 10/01/2024 05:49 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >> On 09/30/2024 11:48 PM, Thomas Heger wrote: >>> Am Montag000030, 30.09.2024 um 20:55 schrieb Ross Finlayson: >>>> On 09/29/2024 10:20 PM, Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>> Am Samstag000028, 28.09.2024 um 23:57 schrieb Ross Finlayson: >>>>>> On 09/28/2024 01:57 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>>>> Am Donnerstag000026, 26.09.2024 um 22:41 schrieb Ross Finlayson: >>>>>>>> On 09/26/2024 10:39 AM, The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 09/25/2024 01:55 PM, The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/22/2024 11:37 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/22/2024 09:59 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/17/2024 11:41 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/17/2024 04:34 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anybody even bother to think about vis-viva versus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motrix >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore, with regards to conservation, momentum, inertia, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and potential and impulse energy? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course not. These are obsolete distinctions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a time when energy and momentum conservation was not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corectly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The matter was put to rest by Christiaan Huygens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by showing (for particle collisions) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that momentum conservation and energy conservation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are distinct conservation laws, that are both needed, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it usually considered at all that momentum and inertia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> places with respect to resistance to change of motion and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> respectively sort of back and forth in the theory since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> antiquity? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Several times? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Au contraire, there is yet definition up, in the air, as it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Find any reference to fictitious forces and for a theory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the potential fields are what's real and the classical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field's just a projection to a perspective in the middle, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and anything at all to do with the plainly empirical or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tribological with regards to our grandly theoretical, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and one may find that the definitions of "inertia" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "momentum" with regards to resistance to changes in motion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and resistance to changes in rest, as with regards to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weight and as with regards to heft, have rotated each >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few hundred years, as with regards to the great schism >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whence Newton's vis-motrix, as with regards to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis-insita >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Leibnitz' vis-viva, as what for example can be read into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the Wikipedia on conservation of _energy_ and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conservation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of _momentum_ up to today, where for example, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "infinitely- many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher orders of theoretical acceleration are both formally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-zero and vanishing" because "zero meters/second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equals infinity seconds/meter". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, for a true centrifugal, and quite all about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> derivative >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and anti-derivative as with regards to momentum, inertia, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and kinetic energy, in a theory what's of course >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-histories >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-potentials with least action and gradient, or sum-of- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentials, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is so that the various under-defined concepts of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of after Newton, are as yet un-defined, and there are a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variety >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of considerations as with regards to the multiplicities, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these singularities, and the reciprocities, of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> projections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, some of these considerations as since "Mediaeval Times", >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help reflect that Einstein's not alone in his, 'attack on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newton'. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moment and Motion: a story of momentum >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH-Gh- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bBb7M&list=PLb7rLSBiE7F4eHy5vT61UYFR7_BIhwcOY >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Theories and principles, momentum and sum-of-histories >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-potentials, conservation, momentum and inertia >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and energy, fields and forces, Einstein's mechanics, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conservation of energy and conservation of momentum, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential and fictitious and causal and virtual, mv, mv^2, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ordinary and extra-ordinary in the differential and inverses, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the standard curriculum and the super-standard, momentum >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in definition, classical exposition, Bayes rule and a law of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> large >>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers, law(s) of large numbers and not-Bayesian >>>>>>>>>>>>>> expectations, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> numerical methods in derivations, uniqueness results later >>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctness results, law(s) of large numbers and continuity, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> complete and replete, induction and limits, partials and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> limits, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the paleo-classical, platforms and planks, mass and weight >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and heft, gravitational force and g-forces, measure and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> matching measure, relativity and a difference between >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest and motion, heft, resistance to gravity, ideals and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> billiard mechanics, wider ideals, Wallis and Huygens, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nayfeh's nonlinear oscillations, addition of vectors, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> observables and ideals, DesCartes' and Kelvin's vortices, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> black holes and white holes, waves and optics, Euler, both >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis-motrix and vis-viva, d'Alembert's principle, Lagrange, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential as integral over space, Maupertuis and Gauss >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and least action and least constraint, Hamilton, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hamiltonians and Bayesians, Jacobi, Navier and Stokes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Cauchy and Saint Venant and Maxwell, statistical >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics and entropy and least action, ideal and real, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanical reduction and severe abstraction, ions and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fields and field theory, wave mechanics and virtual >>>>>>>>>>>>>> particles, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ideals and the ideal, the classical and monistic holism, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> paleo- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nouveau. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Much like the theories of "fall", "shadow", or >>>>>>>>>>>>> "push" gravity, or the "shadow" or "umbral" >>>>>>>>>>>>> gravity and for theories of real supergravity, >>>>>>>>>>>>> as after Fatio and LeSage, as of theories of >>>>>>>>>>>>> "pull" or "suck" gravity of Newton and the >>>>>>>>>>>>> "rubber-sheet" or "down" gravity of Einstein, >>>>>>>>>>>>> then the theories of vortices like DesCartes >>>>>>>>>>>>> and Kelvin, and others, help reflect on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> rectilinear and curvilinear, and flat and round, >>>>>>>>>>>>> as with regards to deconstructive accounts of >>>>>>>>>>>>> usual unstated assumptions and the severe >>>>>>>>>>>>> abstraction and mechanical reduction, in as >>>>>>>>>>>>> with regards to modern theories of mechanics. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Zero meters per second is infinity seconds per meter. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========