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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Extensive article on Rivendell and Grant Petersen
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 06:29:00 -0400
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 10:05:30 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 9/24/2024 5:28 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>> On 9/24/2024 5:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 9/24/2024 5:03 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 24 Sep 2024 18:46:57 +0000, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/24/2024 1:08 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> They absolutely could have just added wider clearance if companies
>>>>>>>> wanted to...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That's my point. So saying "Discs allowed wider tires" seems 
>>>>>>> inaccurate
>>>>>>> at best.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not really clearly they could of made wide tired rim brake bikes though
>>>>>> they would of had to chnage equipment ie callipers that could handle
>>>>>> extra width which would be a performance decline, and realistically
>>>>>> would become more so as tires got wider.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But this wasn’t what consumer wanted ie they wanted disks in many ways
>>>>>> needed encouragement to try wider tires.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good V-brakes REALLY outperform disks under all conditions that I've 
>>>>> used
>>>>> them in including heavy rain. Disks are there for one reason. To make 
>>>>> you
>>>>> buy a new frame and fork and special wheels. 
>>>> 
>>>> I agree with Tom on this point. 
>>> 
>>> Nope. Tom is completely wrong. V-brakes do not outperform disks, under 
>>> any conditions.
>>> 
>>> Again, you may not have discerned the difference in your riding style, 
>>> but I can guarantee to that as a someone who has had V-brakes  and disc 
>>> brakes on the same bike, discs are better all around. Casual riding 
>>> generally won't reveal the advantages.
>>> 
>>> The issues are two-fold
>>> - Tom has never ridden a bike with disc brakes
>>> - toms cycling skills are highly questionable given his documented 
>>> claims of such things as needing to stop pedaling to shift, needing to 
>>> look down to shift with downtube shifters, and his claim that every 
>>> cyclist sprints from a stop at maximum effort.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don't see the disc takeover of road
>>>> bikes as being consumer driven. ISTM instead that within the space of 
>>>> a few years, if you wanted to buy a bike, you pretty much had to buy a 
>>>> bike with disc brakes.
>>> 
>>> You are correct about this.
>> 
>> That's the point about which I was agreeing with Tom.
>> 
>> About disc brakes giving "better braking," I think that's true. But for 
>> anything close to typical road riding, the improvements are marginal and 
>> unimportant. Or IOW "Casual riding generally won't reveal the advantages."
>> 
>> We're getting perilously close to total agreement now!
>> 
>> 
>Your argument that road bikes could of had rim brakes with wider clearance
>no one is disputing that, they can handle 32mm maybe more not sure what the
>limit is for long reach seems to be mostly where my bike is ie 32mm
>maximum, and likewise folks commenting on the slight reduction in power as
>they are long reach.
>
>But short reach stuff will get to 28mm which is probably enough for most
>roadies?
>
>But realistically since the market clearly wanted disks, and the advantages
>of keeping them are really marginal, and it’s just a non issue.
>
>Roger Merriman

And rim brakes are not going away for the people who want them, so,
why argue about them?

--
C'est bon
Soloman